Buyer protection really ironclad?

Posted to the fb board 26 May:

Update though not really relevant to the conversation above.

The seller initiated a refund via PayPal. eBay automatically closed the case. PayPal showed the refund as "pending"; then, after 3 days, sent a "eCheck declined by the sender's bank" which seems like an "insufficient funds". I filed a dispute with my credit card.

The credit card company called me and, to my surprise, didn't really seem to understand how eBay and PayPal worked. So, I explained it to him. The credit card company set up a conference call between me, the credit card company, eBay Support and eBay Trust & Safety (I think). There was a lot of discussion as if nobody had ever heard of this happening before. Good grief.

eBay agreed to refund my money but it would take 2 weeks. Credit card company said that, if eBay didn't do the refund, they would. eBay still hasn't paid and the credit card dispute is still open. (Still waiting in the 2 week period.)

At this point, eBay Buyer Protection looks ridiculous. It reminds me of those old Publishers Clearinghouse mailers but, instead, it is like: "Your purchase MAY be protected by eBay Buyer Protection and you MAY have won 12 Million Dollars as well!"

I'll try to remember to update when it is finally over.

Unwelcome bidder removals in modern times? Update: gone

Update: 1 June.
Neg is gone, but it seems to have been some kind of miraculous event.

It was explained multiple times that the neg would not be removed, because seller had not had the block set up properly.

---

Historically, ebay would remove negs when an international buyer bid on a listing which stated US shipping only.

However, 3-4 years ago, ebay enhanced the site to allow formal blocking of bidders in places where seller does not ship. Since then, they have not, as I have observed, removed a neg when an international bidder bid but seller refused to ship. (they have removed negs when buyer got tricky and worked around the block)

An apparently concise case now exists. Seller did not configure a block for international buyers.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=blackowl123&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers

Neg was left 12 May 2011
Should have allowed opportunity to give USA address before cancelling Seller: tishka303 ( 927) May-12-11 10:13
Reply by tishka303 (May-23-11 20:21):
Specifically says NO INTERNATIONAL shipping, still buys a coin, irresponsible!

Will it stay or will it go?

More NetNeutrals removals

Don't rely on good feedback of ebay motors sellers.

Apparently, they can pay to have most negs removed. So long as they made more profit on the transaction than they pay to remove the neg, they have a profitable business model.

The big losers are honest ebay motors sellers.

- seller even offered a 72 hour unconditional guarantee - after car arrived, major issues never described in the auction and even had odometer issues that seller knew about and did not disclose. I contacted the dealer 3 times within this window with no response. He contacts netneutral and lies about entire incident right before decision deadline for the "Neatral" to decide and just a few hours later a decision is reached.........and I have all of the proof of e-mails and communication between me and seller. Netneautral states that feedback will be removed. I have to only believe that the seller paid for the service and I used the "free service". I had to laugh out loud when I saw the decision - I cannot believe this "service" even exists....but I guess if you can buy your way out of a negative feedback, there will be a market for it. Unbelievable!! I know how you feel though.

NetNeutrals & timely feedback Update: neg gone

Update 17 May, neg gone.

NetNeutrals is a service which can get an ebay motors seller's neg removed, if the neg meets certain guidelines.

One of the guidelines is this: link
The Feedback wasn't submitted in a reasonable amount of time. 30 days is usually an adequate period of time to allow for inspection and test drive of a purchased vehicle.

The problem with this is that ebay gives buyer 60 days to leave feedback.

Here's a test case, reported to NetNeutral: link

Neg: vehicle was misrepresented. A/C does not work, needs new clutch, body rusted

Reply by seller: Bought in person, drove 250mi home without issue, leaves feedback after 2 months

Feedback left on 10 May.
Auction closed on 17 Mar
Elapsed time 53 days.

Will it stay or will it go?

Yet Another Extortion Case

At 3:34pm, recieved the following via eBay Messages:

Dear apn_enterprise,

This hat is NOT a beret. It is not even close to a beret, which is a French hat shaped like a pancake. Your hat is either a chef's b on net OR some kind of religious head wear.
Your photographs are purposely deceptive.
I want a FULL refund or I will leave negative feedback to BEWARE and warn EBayers, file a fraud claim with my CitiBank card, and file a PayPal complaint.
You know these aren't berets. You are trying to sell some kind of WEIRD hat.
Sincerely,
Buyer

At 3:49pm (a full 15 minutes after sending us that message), buyer opens a SNAD case:

Hi apn_enterprise,
eBay opened a case in the Resolution Center because buyer has a problem with an item purchased from you.
In most cases, buyers and sellers can resolve these types of issues through direct communication. We encourage you to respond to this case by May 11, 2011. If you aren't able to work things out, you or the buyer can contact eBay Customer Support to review this case and make a final decision.

Details the buyer provided:
Problem: The item is not as described
The buyer has already contacted you through eBay Messages
The buyer paid on Apr 29, 2011
The item is wrong
You have not responded to the buyer
You aren't working with the buyer to solve the problem

Additional information:
"This hat is NOT a beret. A beret is a specific type of hat that is flat like a pancake with only a slight rise to it. The hat I received is tall and poufy liuke a chef's hat or a clown's hat OR I think it is some kind of Indian (as in the country of India) national costume hat or religious hat. This is the kind of hat that you see an Indian man wear in a bad TV show so the audience can immediately identify the character's religion or country of origin -- which isn't France -- that's for sure!!! The seller's photos are deceptive as they are taken like an areial view, so you cannot see how how tall and puffed up the hat is. The seller is NOT being honest with the description. Maybe the seller does not understand English or the French word "beret." I want a full refund."

The buyer wants:
A full refund

Transaction Information:
We've placed a hold on this PayPal transaction while you and the buyer work to resolve this case.

We responded to the case after speaking to eBay Customer Service and requested a return for a refund (buyer's preference), which means they would pay for return shipping.

At 4:55pm, received following email to our personal email address:

RE: Item No. 250652107182

Dear Mr. or Ms. XXXXXX (they used my name),

I will be returning the orange sequin headdress. This is a turban style hat -- not a beret.

I expect a full refund AND ALSO return postage.

You have made the error and have wasted my time repackaging the item. You have wasted my money on a return envelope. You have wasted my gasoline driving to the post office. You have wasted my time standing in line at the post office.

And you sure as heck can pay my return postage amount. If you choose not to reimburse me the additional return postage, I will leave negative feedback as well as negative tweets and blogs.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXX

What are our courses of actions now regarding this PITA? Please help!

==
Later:
Just got another message from the buyer:

"Do you not understand English? According to EBay, the Buyer and Seller can choose to make a different agreement.
Here's the agreement I want: You pay my return shipping. This is NOT in violation of EBay rules.

Do you choose to pay the return shipping?"

Crazy!
[]
The CS rep already reported them for Feedback Extortion on our behalf.