Buyer refunded and keeps the stuff, ebay replies

Here's the original email sent from Ebay at 8:41 am today

We're sorry there was a problem with this transaction. After reviewing the case, we made a final decision in the buyer's favor.
Details:
Decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favor.

Comments:
The buyer has been asked to return the item to you. Once tracking shows the item has been delivered to you, the buyer will be issued a full refund.

Then the 2nd email from Ebay came at 2:40pm today:

eBay Customer Support has reviewed the case and made a final decision.
The buyer is not eligible for a refund, but this case will still be included in your seller performance evaluation. The hold on this PayPal transaction has been removed. This case is closed.

Decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favor.


Sooo....Ebay decided in the buyer's favor but he is not eligible for a refund? Huh?

And then in the case details it says:

eBay Customer Support has refunded the buyer and the case is closed. Jan 31, 2011 at 2:40 PM
Reimbursement information:
Final decision:
This case has been decided in the buyer's favor.
eBay Customer Support comments:
The buyer returned the item without authorization and did not provide tracking information for the return. You don't need to do anything else.
Transaction information:
We've removed the hold on this PayPal transaction. View PayPal transaction

Griff Lives!

It's been a while, but here is a recent (31 Jan 11) report of griff at work:

I just want to thank everyone again for their helpful comments. I have been looking at the DBs for the past few days and found out about "Griff." I contacted him and my issue has been resolved. The positive feedback with the low star was removed. It's amazing that one person at eBay can make such a difference. Thank you for putting his name out there and for the help on this issue!!

Here was the original posting:

I cannot believe that eBay has "no way" to correct a mistaken DSR. I actually had a buyer contact me and tell me they accidentally left 1 star on "Item as Described" and that she would like to change it. She had never used the DSR rating system before and wanted to change it. However, because she left me positive feedback, eBay says there's nothing that can be done. So, all my work to achieve their nearly impossible 20% discount could be undone over a MISTAKE that they won't allow the buyer to fix.

What ebay pays CS to listen to

I had buyer leave negative feedback that item wasn't has described when in fact it was as described but shipper destoryed package, buyer left negative feedback that item wasn't as described and follow up feed back that seller wouldn't help in fact full refund was given even before I okayed it and I am now waiting for refund from shipper and have lost my good rateing, I contacted ebay about feedback and they said buyers feedback was okay???

Synopsis:
Stuff broken in transit.
Seller refuses to fix the transaction.
Buyer submits SNAD, seller still refuses to fix.
Ebay refunds buyer.
Buyer negs seller.
Seller calls ebay, expecting the neg to be removed.

Seller needed to fix the transaction at step 2.
Ebay dislikes this seller behavior so intensely, they have a special seller strike for it, the "dispute unresolved by seller" strike.

Reply to an unfair neg

Actual replies

1. Beware of perv, he emailed "what i need is a women" we ignore it and he did this

2. Read My return policy "only merchandise credit" on any return.

So what do marginally bad stars look like?

Here's a marginally bad set of 100 stars, shipping time in this case:

2 1's > these combined are enough to drop me
2 2 's > below standards in the shipping time category
---------
3 3's
---------
7 4's
86 5's

SNAD lost, but neg might be appropriate

Sometimes, we see where some sour grapes SNAD loser ends up negging, but sometimes, buyer loses the SNAD, but has some legitimate beef.

Try this one:
Neg 12 Nov 2010: 13" by 11" by 4 " ps3 in a 12" by 12" by 8" box to save shipping don't buy from

Reply: This was sold as is and customer lost ebay dispute he started with us on 11/13

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&userid=fastcashpawnri&iid=-1&de=off&interval=0&items=200

Secondarily, we see continued reports that "parts or repair" listings are very difficult for buyer to win SNAD case.

yet another extortion test UPDATE: gone!

Another neg to see, will it stay or will it go?

Here's the report:
The buyer received the item and then demanded a full refund. I responded telling him I would would give him a full refund if he returned the item, even though my listing states no returns. He refused to return the item and gave me two hours to refund his money or he would leave a negative feedback. I again told him I would give him a full refund when the item was returned - I also reported him to eBay for feedback extortion. He followed through and left a negative feedback ruining my perfect feedback score over an $11.00 item + $1.55 shipping! It would certainly be interesting to see the feedback others left for him - which he keeps private.

Here's the neg, from 24 Jan 11:
THE MONEY IS FALSE, THE SQUARE EDGES AND IS NOT SILVER, REPLICA, FAKE

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=lets-go-dutch&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

Ebay behavior in individually reported cases

q: Then explain why a seller with over 100 FB no 1s or 2s on their DSRs and no star less than 4.8 is put back on Paypal holds and selling limits in certain categories after being forced to refund a buyer who admitted they did not want a refund in their dispute, even after the buyer revised their FB and repaid the seller.

The reality of internet discussion boards is that we deal with incomplete information, and often information which is inaccurate in some way or another.

Additionally, we come to such miscommunication as the distinction between being shut down, vs restricted.

The best stories contain details, such as copies of mails received from ebay.

Lastly, ebay has made some ridiculous decisions in individual cases.

The bottom line: there is no way to form a major conclusion from an isolated story.

Sellers who engage SNAD wars end up in pain.

To make a long story short, he bought my product, filed a SNAD, I challenged it, PayPal agreed, but then he filed a chargeback and my PayPal account went negative and I was unable to sell anything on eBay since then. The guy left me a negative feedback, which marred my otherwise 100% score.

Psychic Reading ends up SNAD, buyer negs

Psychic Reading By Psychic Jessica
Item condition: --
Ended: Oct 28, 201009:09:34 PDT
Bid history:
1 bid
Sold For: US $1.50
Shipping: FREE Standard Shipping | See all details
Delivery: Estimated within 4-8 business days
Returns: No Returns Accepted

Seller info
jessicamitchell200 ( 32)
88.1% Positive feedback

Item number: 230543802202
Item location: Rahway, NJ, United States

Topic: Psychic Medium Readings

I can assist in any matter whether it be love, family, career, finance or personal issues. I am a gifted healer and can help with issues like shattered hearts, wounded souls and broken spirits. I offer tarot psychic and crystal ball. I also cleanse auras i do photo readings send two one of you and one of the one you want to know about.

Feedback:
I HAVE NEVER BEEN ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH A WOMAN EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guardian Angel neg removals

A guardian angel has been patroling the boards, at least the fb board and seller central, for the past several months.

The angel, some ebay employee with the direct or indirect authority to get negs/neuts removed, has acted at least twice, and likely well more than that.

Here's the most recent report:
Hi everybody-

I actually didn't do anything new to get the negative removed, as I was going to report the member again today. When I woke up this morning, I saw an message in My eBay from a customer support representative saying that they saw this thread and that they personally removed the negative and would take appropriate action towards this buyer's behavior. I also noticed that another negative similar to mine given to another member was removed as well. It seems that posting here gets problems taken care of faster than actually calling them. Thanks again for your help everybody!

FB timing policy clarified.

In a somewhat twisted case, we find this neg:

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=bachi_happens&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

Neg on 18 Jan: I guess this guy is too busy to leave me feedback.

Seller reports this response from CS:
I just off the phone with eBay. The lady basically told me that him leaving a negative for me not leaving him feedback does not fall under any of eBay's policy's for removal.

A related extortion claim fizzled for lack of sound evidence.

A real case of cranky timing negs: updated

Update: negs/neuts gone.

Observation: ebay does not like crusaders.

Related to the ebay investigations blog, the negger in that case is definitely a crank about feedback.

On 13 Jan 11, buyer left 23 neutral fb, all more or less like:

had to clear this out, never heard anything from you

By the wails of sellers, this seems to have been about sellers who decline to post feedback.

Check back to see if they stay: link

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=mrsq2you&iid=-1&de=off&items=200

Focus on "reference to ebay investigations"

NOT allowed in feedback: References to eBay or PayPal investigations

Usually, this results in a removal of the comment, not a removal of the feedback.

However, what "investigations" means is subject to some interpretation.

Reports have existed that a reference to a paypal refund would be removed. Here's where I'll put some test cases, with updates as they may occur.

UPDATE: neg gone!

Neg: WAS REFUNDED THRU EBAY BUYR PROT PRG ITM WAS NEVER RECD SELR DID NOT REFUND

from 4 Dec 2010

End of the extortion experiment? Update: not

Two reports in two days now regarding negs which followed threats to post neg if seller didn't handle SNAD case as buyer expected.

He then threatened my feedback if I did not refund his money plus shipping costs and I would need to also pay for return shipping plus $1.00.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=grigolupo&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

Neg posted 15 Dec:
very used... described as "maybe new." Not even close!

Update:

"After reviewing the details of the correspondence between your account
and dallasberry, I've concluded that their threat of leaving poor
Feedback if you did not accept a refund and reimburse them for return
shipping constitutes Feedback extortion. I've taken appropriate action
in this case to address that issue with them. Also, as a result of this
action, the negative Feedback you received has been removed."

One of the more interesting aspects of this case, the threat may have been worded as obliquely as: You're forgetting, sir, that I haven't left you feedback, yet.

Returns on ebay

A quote from board poster couldabeenworse

The key to success in retail is to sell stuff that customers want to keep. That's an extra challenge in mail order, where customers are unable to handle, inspect or "try on" the merchandise before purchasing. Accepting returns is a nuisance, but it makes your potential customer pool much larger, and hopefully the additional bids or purchases is sufficient to cover the expenses.

Ebay neg after lost SNAD

Two cases from the same day. Check back to see if they get removed.

Case 1:
Will ebay remove the neg? Poster claims they would.

I had asked eBay before the claim and case about the threats of being left negative feedback if I didnt return the money and asked if she/he opens a case and loses, and leaves negative feedback, can that be removed? They said yes? cause they were leaving it out of revenge for losing a claims case...so now will try to get it removed?

Neg 5 Jan 11: no comment, defective items, money and time lost

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=goldmetalcuda&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

=========

Case 2:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=mykidsarefurry&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller

Neg from 4 Jan 10: Nasty seller. Shoe size guide incorrect, refused to accept a refund, ruined gift Buyer: waterford_studios ( 193) Jan-04-11 20:51
Reply by mykidsarefurry (Jan-05-11 07:22):
Size/Measurements listed in auction.Filed SNAD.EBay ruled in my favor. Unfair!!!

==========

Case 3:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=karlibug&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller
Neg 17 Jan 01: This item was improperly listed as "O" but is Standard guage

Item was mis-categorized, but described correctly. Buyer lost the SNAD.

Blocked for posting neutral

Yet another problem with the current fb system. Buyers feel betrayed when a sincere report ends up with some penalty.

Since I have an excellent score as a buyer, I was really surprised to find that a seller had blocked me; I can't even contact them to discuss the matter.

I left the seller neutral feedback because I had to request a refund. The item was not adequately pictured or described. I did receive the refund, but I didn't think it a positive experience. As I told the seller, I had to choose between two items (for my business) from two different sellers. Had I known what their item was actually like, I wouldn't have bid on it. I didn't know that the seller would block me for that, but apparently has.

Because the seller had such a high rating, my expectations were accordingly high. To see that a refund request and an honest, neutral rating gets you blocked is disappointing. That the seller won't even let me email them to discuss the matter is even more disappointing.

Thanks for letting me share this here.

Moon Barks

Occasionally, some poster will issue an order.

An order which inadvertently communicates a whole different set of information about the poster.

Such as:

please don't post on this question anymore you are way far from reality

Paying buyer is qualified to judge seller.

Buyer: stuff is broken.

Seller:

Hello and thanks for the response. We just have to ask a few thinks from you. Most of the time when we have a return we have to ask for the item to be returned of course to ensure it is the same one we sent out, we do mark all items in 5 spots with an infrared marker. Also we do have to ask for a photocopy of you're technicians license to ensure you are certified to handle these parts as if the part was not handled correctly or incorrectly installed and died upon first use then we cannot be held at fault.

Buyer: negative fb:
Item Recieved Broken Seller Refuses To Replace Buyer Beware

Moral: don't assert judgment over buyer's qualifications. Once buyer pays, buyer is qualified to judge you.