All internet forums are tormented by recurring themes of drivel.
A large class of such involves unimportant exceptions.
Here's but one example.
Poster 1: I've been shipping fragile things for many years now, and they really do get there unbroken. Here's how I pack them [good packing ideas].
Genius 1, needing to show superior intelligence: If the UPS truck drives over that package, it wouldn't survive.
Genius 2, needing to show even more intelligence: If the package had been constructed of 3/8" steel plate, it would have survived even a UPS truck.
Genius 3, feeling himself the master of the game: Even a 3/8" steel plate package wouldn't survive being run over by a D-10 Caterpillar bulldozer.
And so on.
I suggest short circuiting such sub-threads straight into the ground, by not replying in any way.
There is, of course, times when exceptions are important. They don't involve stuff so unlikely that it need not be accounted for. Generally, a good posting regarding exceptions accepts the burden of showing why the exception is important.
Sunday, December 13, 2009
Thursday, December 10, 2009
Exploiting bad listings as a buyer
The basic technique for buying low on ebay is "buy bad listings". Bad listings do not describe the item properly, or do not attract search results properly.
Most bad listings are created by sellers who lack experience, although plenty are created by sellers who just never seem to get it right, and a few are slip-ups by experienced sellers.
It helps to know what you are buying, such that you can recognize the rare 1932 model being described as the more common 1939 model.
Most bad listings are not that concisely in error. Rather, they are ambiguous. Key information is left out, usually because the seller didn't know the information, and didn't know it was necessary. The picture is small, blurred, or just doesn't show the necessary part.
Pursuing information from seller is a double edged sword. Buyer is advising seller of weaknesses in the listing, and seller might shore up the listing before end of auction, or even cancel the listing and fix it up for later.
Buyer is allowed to take the listing at face value, even though buyer might have doubts about some claim. When buyer has doubts, other buyers have doubts too, and the price could easily end up a bargain when the thing really is what it claims to be. When the listing says "complete set", but the picture shows only 4 of the 5 pieces needed for a complete set, the item will not sell at a full set price; rather,it will sell at somewhere between what the full set would sell for and the incomplete set would sell for. The bargain arises when seller actually does ship the whole set, exactly as promised.
But what if things go the other way. What if seller just didn't know it took 5 items to make a full set? I suggest winning the auction, and then discussing such a matter with seller before seller has any chance to ship the item, peacefully agreeing to a mutual cancellation if that's the best that can be worked out. The goal is to minimize conflict but especially to minimize cost. It is not in either buyer's or seller's best interest for the incomplete set to arrive, only to prompt a stressful exchange regarding the missing piece. Yes, buyer is protected by paypal, and yes, seller will probably cover return shipping to avoid undesired fb, but no, most of us would find the hassle worth avoiding.
Most bad listings are created by sellers who lack experience, although plenty are created by sellers who just never seem to get it right, and a few are slip-ups by experienced sellers.
It helps to know what you are buying, such that you can recognize the rare 1932 model being described as the more common 1939 model.
Most bad listings are not that concisely in error. Rather, they are ambiguous. Key information is left out, usually because the seller didn't know the information, and didn't know it was necessary. The picture is small, blurred, or just doesn't show the necessary part.
Pursuing information from seller is a double edged sword. Buyer is advising seller of weaknesses in the listing, and seller might shore up the listing before end of auction, or even cancel the listing and fix it up for later.
Buyer is allowed to take the listing at face value, even though buyer might have doubts about some claim. When buyer has doubts, other buyers have doubts too, and the price could easily end up a bargain when the thing really is what it claims to be. When the listing says "complete set", but the picture shows only 4 of the 5 pieces needed for a complete set, the item will not sell at a full set price; rather,it will sell at somewhere between what the full set would sell for and the incomplete set would sell for. The bargain arises when seller actually does ship the whole set, exactly as promised.
But what if things go the other way. What if seller just didn't know it took 5 items to make a full set? I suggest winning the auction, and then discussing such a matter with seller before seller has any chance to ship the item, peacefully agreeing to a mutual cancellation if that's the best that can be worked out. The goal is to minimize conflict but especially to minimize cost. It is not in either buyer's or seller's best interest for the incomplete set to arrive, only to prompt a stressful exchange regarding the missing piece. Yes, buyer is protected by paypal, and yes, seller will probably cover return shipping to avoid undesired fb, but no, most of us would find the hassle worth avoiding.
Wednesday, December 9, 2009
Board Moderation Issues
The Feedback board is notorious for moderation issues.
The moderators are both strict and inconsistent.
Part of the inconsistency is due to the fact that the moderators do not review the board. They react to reports of posts by board readers.
The other part is that there really is no set of rules which explain what can and can't be posted. There is a written set of rules of course, but they are interpreted so wildly that it becomes unpredictable to most people. Even long timers get caught unawares on occasion.
The postings just go poof. The poster receives an email notifying which rule was violated. The poof is known as a "pink slap", for historic reasons. At one time, a group of ebay employees actually posted on the board from time to time. When they posted, their postings had a pink header. They also were the moderators, who removed postings.
Attempts at humor fare especially badly.
A recent posting offered, humorously, to sell me on ebay. It got pulled as "hate speech" or "interpersonal dispute".
While the board allows discussing moderation, it does not allow discussion of removed postings or threads.
The intent of this is sensible. The moderators don't want the same thing repeated. Taken literally though, it ends up a bit silly. When postings go away, the thread can be come confusing to read. Attempts by posters to explain the confusion are violations.
So barring ongoing interpersonal disputes, which are unwelcome everywhere, feel free to post comments here regarding board moderation issues.
Do please avoid hostile remarks about other posters to the fb board. I won't make them about you either.
The moderators are both strict and inconsistent.
Part of the inconsistency is due to the fact that the moderators do not review the board. They react to reports of posts by board readers.
The other part is that there really is no set of rules which explain what can and can't be posted. There is a written set of rules of course, but they are interpreted so wildly that it becomes unpredictable to most people. Even long timers get caught unawares on occasion.
The postings just go poof. The poster receives an email notifying which rule was violated. The poof is known as a "pink slap", for historic reasons. At one time, a group of ebay employees actually posted on the board from time to time. When they posted, their postings had a pink header. They also were the moderators, who removed postings.
Attempts at humor fare especially badly.
A recent posting offered, humorously, to sell me on ebay. It got pulled as "hate speech" or "interpersonal dispute".
While the board allows discussing moderation, it does not allow discussion of removed postings or threads.
The intent of this is sensible. The moderators don't want the same thing repeated. Taken literally though, it ends up a bit silly. When postings go away, the thread can be come confusing to read. Attempts by posters to explain the confusion are violations.
So barring ongoing interpersonal disputes, which are unwelcome everywhere, feel free to post comments here regarding board moderation issues.
Do please avoid hostile remarks about other posters to the fb board. I won't make them about you either.
Tuesday, December 8, 2009
SNADs and extortion.
General scenario:
1. buyer receives stuff, complains to seller that it is not as described by listing
2. seller offers a remedy involving returning the stuff, or even a refund if only buyer supplies pictures of the problem
3. buyer refuses, but continues to demand a refund, threatening undesirable fb
And the question arises, is that "feedback extortion".
And the answer, unequivocally, is no. The question is not "does this meet the intuitive or dictionary definition of extortion". The question is, will ebay rule it as extortion and protect seller.
The fact that ebay is totally consistent on SNAD/extortion cases isn't quite the same as saying that ebay never rules extortion. Convincing ebay to rule extortion requires additional information. All known cases have involved a clear pattern by buyer.
Here's a quote from such a seller quoting a reply from ebay customer service:
In this instance, we found that the buyer was not in violation of our
Feedback extortion policy. We did consider the facts that she refused to send photos of the item and refused to send the item back. However, we also did consider that there have been no previous complaints against this member. We also considered the fact that the buyer had complaints about all three items but only pursued a refund for one.
Here's a story posted to the board:
I called Greedbay & spoke to the rep who told me just to do what the customer wanted. In that particular incident the customer received a vest (within 4 days). We list all types of fabric on clothing in all listings. She did not like the fabric. Okay, so I said return it and I will be happy to refund. She emailed me back through Ebay messaging and stated that she was going to keep the $12 vest + I needed to send her $10 so she could go to the tailor and get it tailored with the fabric she wanted.....
This is insane! True extortion. I even looked up wikipedias definition. I called Greedbay, rep told me just to send her the $10 and be done with it.... She said it was NOT considered extortion. Excuse me, the last time I looked, if you are asking for something that is not on the listing.... that is extortion! They denied my removal of neg feedback.
Here is another quote:
This guy left me a Nuetral. Contacting live Ebay help here is the chat. Ridiculous!
Initial Question/Comment: General Questions
5:46:14 PM System
Randi W. has joined this session!
5:46:14 PM System
Connected with Randi W.
5:46:14 PM Randi W.
Thank you for contacting eBay live chat. My name is Randi, I would be happy to help you today! Can I get your name and eBay user id please?
5:46:32 PM sportschampioncards
**************** and my name is ****
5:46:49 PM Randi W.
Thank you ****, how can I help you today?
5:47:10 PM sportschampioncards
Ok it's regarding Ebay item #****************
5:47:29 PM Randi W.
Ok
5:47:43 PM sportschampioncards
Now this guy threatened with poor feedback. Feedback Extorsion
5:48:17 PM sportschampioncards
I emailed Ebay with his email and they said to contact back if he left poor feedback. He even opened a claim on me and the claim was dropped
5:49:08 PM sportschampioncards
This is his bogus feedback
5:49:20 PM sportschampioncards
Item described wrong 4 times! Asked 4 return, got blamed, re-sold.no trust-bware.
5:49:37 PM Randi W.
I see that the buyer left your a neutral feedback. Let me take a look and see what I can find out for you.
5:50:02 PM sportschampioncards
resold . He resold it
5:50:12 PM sportschampioncards
give me a break C'mon!
5:50:45 PM sportschampioncards
it's all lies
5:51:12 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you feel the feedback is not fair. I am looking into this for you, please give me a few minutes.
5:51:43 PM sportschampioncards
Ok as long as you guys do the right thing and don't let this guy get away with it. Before he does it to others
5:52:47 PM Randi W.
So I understand that a dispute was opened through PayPal was it closed?
5:52:58 PM sportschampioncards
yes he closed it
5:53:04 PM sportschampioncards
that's the funny part
5:54:01 PM sportschampioncards
I don't deserve this feedback. This guy tried to extort me and then opens a bs claim and then closes it cause he resold the item
5:54:04 PM sportschampioncards
C'mon
5:54:22 PM Randi W.
Let me take a look at the dispute. One moment please
5:58:02 PM Randi W.
Thank you for your patience it will be a few more moments.
5:58:12 PM Randi W.
Did the buyer email you through eBay and try to extort you?
5:58:17 PM sportschampioncards
no problem
5:58:39 PM sportschampioncards
yes. I've emailed Ebay the email that was through Ebay already
5:59:28 PM sportschampioncards
Ebay said they can't do anything till he leaves feedback
5:59:31 PM sportschampioncards
well he did
5:59:42 PM Randi W.
I see that he left a neutral feedback.
6:00:04 PM sportschampioncards
well isn't it obvious his intensions to begin with
6:00:25 PM sportschampioncards
he saw he couldn't get money out of me
6:01:10 PM sportschampioncards
negative nuetral is the same thing
6:01:18 PM sportschampioncards
telling people they can't trust me
6:01:25 PM sportschampioncards
how would you feel
6:02:21 PM sportschampioncards
I can't believe you guys are even questioning me on this matter
6:03:02 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you are frustrated about the feedback and I do see that the buyer closed the dispute, however feedback is still their opinion on the transaction and it does have to meet the requirements to remove it.
6:03:51 PM sportschampioncards
what do you mean. According to your feedback policy Feedback extorsion is not tolerated
6:04:03 PM sportschampioncards
I have proof
6:04:15 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:04:17 PM sportschampioncards
do you want me to contact the better business Bearu
6:04:19 PM sportschampioncards
cause I will
6:04:57 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:05:08 PM sportschampioncards
Through Ebay
6:05:22 PM sportschampioncards
Don't you have records of my complaints already
6:05:30 PM sportschampioncards
I knew this was coming
6:06:12 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us an email however I don't see that email in your member to member messages what day did they send that email?
6:07:06 PM sportschampioncards
hold on let me look
6:08:03 PM Randi W.
I see that they emailed you on the 26, but that is the last email I see from them.
6:08:48 PM sportschampioncards
It was the day I left feedback I believe
6:10:23 PM Randi W.
The last email I see from them in eBay is on the 26th.
6:10:51 PM sportschampioncards
let me check my ebay email records
6:11:59 PM sportschampioncards
how do I find the email records?
6:12:33 PM Randi W.
They would be in your My Messages.
6:14:30 PM sportschampioncards
what you guys erase the blogs?
6:14:38 PM sportschampioncards
I sent his email
6:15:38 PM Randi W.
Do you still have the messages in your personal email?
6:16:49 PM sportschampioncards
I'm looking for it
6:16:58 PM Randi W.
ok thank you
6:20:13 PM sportschampioncards
I can't find the email
6:20:18 PM sportschampioncards
I must have deleted it
6:20:30 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you guys the email
6:20:38 PM sportschampioncards
that's probably why I deleted it
6:20:58 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us the email, however we would need the header to know it came from the buyer.
6:21:15 PM sportschampioncards
I did what you guys told me to do
6:21:22 PM sportschampioncards
don't give me this bs now
6:21:28 PM Randi W.
If a buyer gets an item that is not described and want a refund for an item, that is not actually feedback extortion.
6:21:54 PM sportschampioncards
wow you guys are something
6:22:30 PM sportschampioncards
hold on foound something
6:22:43 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however feedback is there so a buyer can state how they feel about the transaction.
6:23:10 PM sportschampioncards
ok how do I copy the header and give it to you
6:23:28 PM sportschampioncards
cause it's right throiugh ebay
6:24:03 PM Randi W.
when was the email sent?
6:24:19 PM sportschampioncards
june 23
6:24:43 PM Randi W.
It was through eBay?
6:25:25 PM sportschampioncards
it says in yellow heading "seller responded to your questiion about this item"
6:25:31 PM sportschampioncards
that's ebay right
6:26:29 PM sportschampioncards
let me just copy this and send it to you
6:26:35 PM sportschampioncards
all the facts are there
6:26:39 PM Randi W.
I can send you an email and have you reply to that email, then I can have the email looked at to see if it meets the feedback extortion guidelines for you.
6:27:14 PM sportschampioncards
how does that make sense
6:28:24 PM Randi W.
If you send the email to me I can look at it to see if it is feedback extortion.
6:28:43 PM sportschampioncards
ok
6:28:54 PM Randi W.
Let me send you that email really quick.
6:30:54 PM Randi W.
Ok the email has been sent. You should see it in your My Messages.
6:31:23 PM sportschampioncards
why don't I forward the emails to you
6:31:30 PM sportschampioncards
do you have na email adress
6:31:54 PM Randi W.
You will need to reply to the email for it to get directly back to me
6:33:33 PM sportschampioncards
I did not get a message
6:34:44 PM Randi W.
It may take just a moment.
6:37:29 PM Randi W.
Ok you should have it now.
6:38:28 PM sportschampioncards
How do i PAST IT? i DON'T KNOW HOW TO
6:40:09 PM Randi W.
You can hold the CTRL key plus C and that will copy. Paste is CTRL and V
6:45:06 PM sportschampioncards
NOT WORKING
6:46:20 PM Randi W.
You need to select the text that you want to copy. So go to the email from the buyer highlight all the text
6:46:35 PM Randi W.
you can right click on your mouse. In the box that comes up click Copy.
6:47:03 PM sportschampioncards
ok I think I did it\
6:47:24 PM Randi W.
Then go to my email to you and paste. you can right click on your mouse and paste.
6:47:37 PM sportschampioncards
look at the frist message. He wanted money and I did offer a refund
6:49:20 PM Randi W.
I don't see a message in eBay from him like that. That is why I need you to send it to me.
6:50:11 PM sportschampioncards
did you get my email I sent you
6:50:25 PM Randi W.
Let me refresh and check
6:52:15 PM Randi W.
so you are referring to "so it will be reflected in your feedback unless you want to refund a bit, $20.00 would be fair I think" as feedback extortion correct?
6:52:25 PM sportschampioncards
yes
6:52:35 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the card
6:53:25 PM sportschampioncards
he threatened to leave poor feedback
6:53:38 PM sportschampioncards
wiythout giving me a chance to offer a refund
6:53:46 PM sportschampioncards
which I did even
6:55:43 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you another email
6:55:48 PM sportschampioncards
we went back and forth
6:55:56 PM sportschampioncards
I worked with this guy
6:56:15 PM sportschampioncards
his feedback is a lie
6:56:55 PM Randi W.
So I do see that the buyer contacted you about the mistake in the listing which is why they were asking for a partial refund. Regrettably that is not feedback extortion.
6:57:16 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the item
6:57:37 PM sportschampioncards
clearly his intensions were to extort me
6:57:45 PM Randi W.
Because you had communication about the error no it would not be feedback extortion.
6:58:10 PM sportschampioncards
umm he emailed me first
6:58:40 PM sportschampioncards
saying if I don't give him money back he'd leave poor feedback
6:59:05 PM sportschampioncards
that's extorsion
6:59:05 PM Randi W.
If the item was listed incorrectly and that brought down the value of the item asking for a partial refund is not extortion
6:59:26 PM sportschampioncards
the roor had nothing to do with the value
6:59:41 PM sportschampioncards
I had a large scan up as well
6:59:53 PM sportschampioncards
error*
7:00:12 PM sportschampioncards
how can you guys defend this guy
7:00:20 PM Randi W.
Yes and the scan and the listing information was different. Which is what the buyer is stating. I am sorry Elie it is not extortion and the feedback cannot be removed.
7:00:23 PM sportschampioncards
he even opened a false claim the dropped it
7:00:37 PM sportschampioncards
then*
7:00:46 PM Randi W.
He did open a claim and did state that he resold the item, but you didn't refund him,
7:00:58 PM sportschampioncards
in the feedback he said I wouldn't offer a refund which clearly I did
7:01:20 PM sportschampioncards
I said to send the item back then I'll issue a refund
7:01:24 PM sportschampioncards
which he didn't
7:01:35 PM Randi W.
Just stating that in a feedback is not against a feedback policy, we would not be able to remove it for that.
7:01:55 PM Randi W.
If you have worked it out with the buyer at this time you can certainly send a feedback revision request to the buyer.
7:02:16 PM sportschampioncards
you're going to make me work with a liar
7:02:36 PM sportschampioncards
way to encourage these kind of people
7:04:19 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however this feedback does not qualify for removal from eBay.
7:06:05 PM sportschampioncards
I'm going to post this chat in the feedback forum. Let's see what other Users think about it
7:06:15 PM sportschampioncards
This is ridiculous
7:07:14 PM Randi W.
I am sorry that the feedback cannot be removed. Did you have any other concerns that I could address for you?
1. buyer receives stuff, complains to seller that it is not as described by listing
2. seller offers a remedy involving returning the stuff, or even a refund if only buyer supplies pictures of the problem
3. buyer refuses, but continues to demand a refund, threatening undesirable fb
And the question arises, is that "feedback extortion".
And the answer, unequivocally, is no. The question is not "does this meet the intuitive or dictionary definition of extortion". The question is, will ebay rule it as extortion and protect seller.
The fact that ebay is totally consistent on SNAD/extortion cases isn't quite the same as saying that ebay never rules extortion. Convincing ebay to rule extortion requires additional information. All known cases have involved a clear pattern by buyer.
Here's a quote from such a seller quoting a reply from ebay customer service:
In this instance, we found that the buyer was not in violation of our
Feedback extortion policy. We did consider the facts that she refused to send photos of the item and refused to send the item back. However, we also did consider that there have been no previous complaints against this member. We also considered the fact that the buyer had complaints about all three items but only pursued a refund for one.
Here's a story posted to the board:
I called Greedbay & spoke to the rep who told me just to do what the customer wanted. In that particular incident the customer received a vest (within 4 days). We list all types of fabric on clothing in all listings. She did not like the fabric. Okay, so I said return it and I will be happy to refund. She emailed me back through Ebay messaging and stated that she was going to keep the $12 vest + I needed to send her $10 so she could go to the tailor and get it tailored with the fabric she wanted.....
This is insane! True extortion. I even looked up wikipedias definition. I called Greedbay, rep told me just to send her the $10 and be done with it.... She said it was NOT considered extortion. Excuse me, the last time I looked, if you are asking for something that is not on the listing.... that is extortion! They denied my removal of neg feedback.
Here is another quote:
This guy left me a Nuetral. Contacting live Ebay help here is the chat. Ridiculous!
Initial Question/Comment: General Questions
5:46:14 PM System
Randi W. has joined this session!
5:46:14 PM System
Connected with Randi W.
5:46:14 PM Randi W.
Thank you for contacting eBay live chat. My name is Randi, I would be happy to help you today! Can I get your name and eBay user id please?
5:46:32 PM sportschampioncards
**************** and my name is ****
5:46:49 PM Randi W.
Thank you ****, how can I help you today?
5:47:10 PM sportschampioncards
Ok it's regarding Ebay item #****************
5:47:29 PM Randi W.
Ok
5:47:43 PM sportschampioncards
Now this guy threatened with poor feedback. Feedback Extorsion
5:48:17 PM sportschampioncards
I emailed Ebay with his email and they said to contact back if he left poor feedback. He even opened a claim on me and the claim was dropped
5:49:08 PM sportschampioncards
This is his bogus feedback
5:49:20 PM sportschampioncards
Item described wrong 4 times! Asked 4 return, got blamed, re-sold.no trust-bware.
5:49:37 PM Randi W.
I see that the buyer left your a neutral feedback. Let me take a look and see what I can find out for you.
5:50:02 PM sportschampioncards
resold . He resold it
5:50:12 PM sportschampioncards
give me a break C'mon!
5:50:45 PM sportschampioncards
it's all lies
5:51:12 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you feel the feedback is not fair. I am looking into this for you, please give me a few minutes.
5:51:43 PM sportschampioncards
Ok as long as you guys do the right thing and don't let this guy get away with it. Before he does it to others
5:52:47 PM Randi W.
So I understand that a dispute was opened through PayPal was it closed?
5:52:58 PM sportschampioncards
yes he closed it
5:53:04 PM sportschampioncards
that's the funny part
5:54:01 PM sportschampioncards
I don't deserve this feedback. This guy tried to extort me and then opens a bs claim and then closes it cause he resold the item
5:54:04 PM sportschampioncards
C'mon
5:54:22 PM Randi W.
Let me take a look at the dispute. One moment please
5:58:02 PM Randi W.
Thank you for your patience it will be a few more moments.
5:58:12 PM Randi W.
Did the buyer email you through eBay and try to extort you?
5:58:17 PM sportschampioncards
no problem
5:58:39 PM sportschampioncards
yes. I've emailed Ebay the email that was through Ebay already
5:59:28 PM sportschampioncards
Ebay said they can't do anything till he leaves feedback
5:59:31 PM sportschampioncards
well he did
5:59:42 PM Randi W.
I see that he left a neutral feedback.
6:00:04 PM sportschampioncards
well isn't it obvious his intensions to begin with
6:00:25 PM sportschampioncards
he saw he couldn't get money out of me
6:01:10 PM sportschampioncards
negative nuetral is the same thing
6:01:18 PM sportschampioncards
telling people they can't trust me
6:01:25 PM sportschampioncards
how would you feel
6:02:21 PM sportschampioncards
I can't believe you guys are even questioning me on this matter
6:03:02 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you are frustrated about the feedback and I do see that the buyer closed the dispute, however feedback is still their opinion on the transaction and it does have to meet the requirements to remove it.
6:03:51 PM sportschampioncards
what do you mean. According to your feedback policy Feedback extorsion is not tolerated
6:04:03 PM sportschampioncards
I have proof
6:04:15 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:04:17 PM sportschampioncards
do you want me to contact the better business Bearu
6:04:19 PM sportschampioncards
cause I will
6:04:57 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:05:08 PM sportschampioncards
Through Ebay
6:05:22 PM sportschampioncards
Don't you have records of my complaints already
6:05:30 PM sportschampioncards
I knew this was coming
6:06:12 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us an email however I don't see that email in your member to member messages what day did they send that email?
6:07:06 PM sportschampioncards
hold on let me look
6:08:03 PM Randi W.
I see that they emailed you on the 26, but that is the last email I see from them.
6:08:48 PM sportschampioncards
It was the day I left feedback I believe
6:10:23 PM Randi W.
The last email I see from them in eBay is on the 26th.
6:10:51 PM sportschampioncards
let me check my ebay email records
6:11:59 PM sportschampioncards
how do I find the email records?
6:12:33 PM Randi W.
They would be in your My Messages.
6:14:30 PM sportschampioncards
what you guys erase the blogs?
6:14:38 PM sportschampioncards
I sent his email
6:15:38 PM Randi W.
Do you still have the messages in your personal email?
6:16:49 PM sportschampioncards
I'm looking for it
6:16:58 PM Randi W.
ok thank you
6:20:13 PM sportschampioncards
I can't find the email
6:20:18 PM sportschampioncards
I must have deleted it
6:20:30 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you guys the email
6:20:38 PM sportschampioncards
that's probably why I deleted it
6:20:58 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us the email, however we would need the header to know it came from the buyer.
6:21:15 PM sportschampioncards
I did what you guys told me to do
6:21:22 PM sportschampioncards
don't give me this bs now
6:21:28 PM Randi W.
If a buyer gets an item that is not described and want a refund for an item, that is not actually feedback extortion.
6:21:54 PM sportschampioncards
wow you guys are something
6:22:30 PM sportschampioncards
hold on foound something
6:22:43 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however feedback is there so a buyer can state how they feel about the transaction.
6:23:10 PM sportschampioncards
ok how do I copy the header and give it to you
6:23:28 PM sportschampioncards
cause it's right throiugh ebay
6:24:03 PM Randi W.
when was the email sent?
6:24:19 PM sportschampioncards
june 23
6:24:43 PM Randi W.
It was through eBay?
6:25:25 PM sportschampioncards
it says in yellow heading "seller responded to your questiion about this item"
6:25:31 PM sportschampioncards
that's ebay right
6:26:29 PM sportschampioncards
let me just copy this and send it to you
6:26:35 PM sportschampioncards
all the facts are there
6:26:39 PM Randi W.
I can send you an email and have you reply to that email, then I can have the email looked at to see if it meets the feedback extortion guidelines for you.
6:27:14 PM sportschampioncards
how does that make sense
6:28:24 PM Randi W.
If you send the email to me I can look at it to see if it is feedback extortion.
6:28:43 PM sportschampioncards
ok
6:28:54 PM Randi W.
Let me send you that email really quick.
6:30:54 PM Randi W.
Ok the email has been sent. You should see it in your My Messages.
6:31:23 PM sportschampioncards
why don't I forward the emails to you
6:31:30 PM sportschampioncards
do you have na email adress
6:31:54 PM Randi W.
You will need to reply to the email for it to get directly back to me
6:33:33 PM sportschampioncards
I did not get a message
6:34:44 PM Randi W.
It may take just a moment.
6:37:29 PM Randi W.
Ok you should have it now.
6:38:28 PM sportschampioncards
How do i PAST IT? i DON'T KNOW HOW TO
6:40:09 PM Randi W.
You can hold the CTRL key plus C and that will copy. Paste is CTRL and V
6:45:06 PM sportschampioncards
NOT WORKING
6:46:20 PM Randi W.
You need to select the text that you want to copy. So go to the email from the buyer highlight all the text
6:46:35 PM Randi W.
you can right click on your mouse. In the box that comes up click Copy.
6:47:03 PM sportschampioncards
ok I think I did it\
6:47:24 PM Randi W.
Then go to my email to you and paste. you can right click on your mouse and paste.
6:47:37 PM sportschampioncards
look at the frist message. He wanted money and I did offer a refund
6:49:20 PM Randi W.
I don't see a message in eBay from him like that. That is why I need you to send it to me.
6:50:11 PM sportschampioncards
did you get my email I sent you
6:50:25 PM Randi W.
Let me refresh and check
6:52:15 PM Randi W.
so you are referring to "so it will be reflected in your feedback unless you want to refund a bit, $20.00 would be fair I think" as feedback extortion correct?
6:52:25 PM sportschampioncards
yes
6:52:35 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the card
6:53:25 PM sportschampioncards
he threatened to leave poor feedback
6:53:38 PM sportschampioncards
wiythout giving me a chance to offer a refund
6:53:46 PM sportschampioncards
which I did even
6:55:43 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you another email
6:55:48 PM sportschampioncards
we went back and forth
6:55:56 PM sportschampioncards
I worked with this guy
6:56:15 PM sportschampioncards
his feedback is a lie
6:56:55 PM Randi W.
So I do see that the buyer contacted you about the mistake in the listing which is why they were asking for a partial refund. Regrettably that is not feedback extortion.
6:57:16 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the item
6:57:37 PM sportschampioncards
clearly his intensions were to extort me
6:57:45 PM Randi W.
Because you had communication about the error no it would not be feedback extortion.
6:58:10 PM sportschampioncards
umm he emailed me first
6:58:40 PM sportschampioncards
saying if I don't give him money back he'd leave poor feedback
6:59:05 PM sportschampioncards
that's extorsion
6:59:05 PM Randi W.
If the item was listed incorrectly and that brought down the value of the item asking for a partial refund is not extortion
6:59:26 PM sportschampioncards
the roor had nothing to do with the value
6:59:41 PM sportschampioncards
I had a large scan up as well
6:59:53 PM sportschampioncards
error*
7:00:12 PM sportschampioncards
how can you guys defend this guy
7:00:20 PM Randi W.
Yes and the scan and the listing information was different. Which is what the buyer is stating. I am sorry Elie it is not extortion and the feedback cannot be removed.
7:00:23 PM sportschampioncards
he even opened a false claim the dropped it
7:00:37 PM sportschampioncards
then*
7:00:46 PM Randi W.
He did open a claim and did state that he resold the item, but you didn't refund him,
7:00:58 PM sportschampioncards
in the feedback he said I wouldn't offer a refund which clearly I did
7:01:20 PM sportschampioncards
I said to send the item back then I'll issue a refund
7:01:24 PM sportschampioncards
which he didn't
7:01:35 PM Randi W.
Just stating that in a feedback is not against a feedback policy, we would not be able to remove it for that.
7:01:55 PM Randi W.
If you have worked it out with the buyer at this time you can certainly send a feedback revision request to the buyer.
7:02:16 PM sportschampioncards
you're going to make me work with a liar
7:02:36 PM sportschampioncards
way to encourage these kind of people
7:04:19 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however this feedback does not qualify for removal from eBay.
7:06:05 PM sportschampioncards
I'm going to post this chat in the feedback forum. Let's see what other Users think about it
7:06:15 PM sportschampioncards
This is ridiculous
7:07:14 PM Randi W.
I am sorry that the feedback cannot be removed. Did you have any other concerns that I could address for you?
Tuesday, November 3, 2009
Who should leave 1st fb?
The chronic foodfight of the feedback board.
In the beginning, sellers always left 1st fb, because they needed good feedback as the only reason anyone would trust them. Grab & run scams abounded, and no one would buy from a low fb seller.
Then, in Feb 2000, the world was turned upside down. The idea of transactional feedback (only one fb per participant per transaction) seemed benign, and very sensible. What ebay didn't count on was the dynamic which arose. Posting 1st feedback meant giving up the right to retaliate.
Sellers who posted 1st feedback lost control of the transaction. Buyer could just run wild, threaten stuff, and then post bad feedback, and there was nothing seller could do.
On the other hand, if seller waited for buyer to leave 1st fb, seller retained the right to retaliate. A neg for a neg. It worked. Buyers quickly learned to not leave negs. The power was irresistible, and 95% of sellers came to be "fb last".
Unfortunately, a lot of sellers became careless under this protection, and a small minority actually exploited the situation by shipping shoddy stuff. Buyers were leaving ebay in droves, even as they were arriving in response to ads. Eventually, new incoming buyers were greatly outnumbered by outgoing buyers, and ebay had to take action.
In May, 2008, Ebay changed the rules. No longer could sellers post negative fb for buyers.
This removed any important power gained by withholding 1st fb. It also removed any real informational content in buyer fb, which has become a combination of "thank you" and a count of things bought.
So we come to an era where there is no reason to withhold 1st fb, and no reason to be too bothered by missing feedback. And yet, we find some buyers who are "feedback cranks", willing to make a fuss over missing fb. And, somewhat oddly, we find some sellers who are cantankerous enough to refuse 1st fb.
I suggest that a seller who refuses 1st fb is like a driver who refuses to wear a seat belt. Sure, it works, indefinitely. But one event, and the lesson could be costly. As a seller, I leave feedback as part of the shipping process. I advise that the item has shipped, and I thank buyer.
And for buyers, it really doesn't matter. The feedback count does not affect your relationship with ebay or sellers. It is a good thing to build it up if you eventually want to sell. As a buyer, I leave feedback when I'm happy with the stuff, and I don't notice whether seller has left fb at that time or not. Buyer's rights to Ebay protection are not compromised for having left good feedback.
In the beginning, sellers always left 1st fb, because they needed good feedback as the only reason anyone would trust them. Grab & run scams abounded, and no one would buy from a low fb seller.
Then, in Feb 2000, the world was turned upside down. The idea of transactional feedback (only one fb per participant per transaction) seemed benign, and very sensible. What ebay didn't count on was the dynamic which arose. Posting 1st feedback meant giving up the right to retaliate.
Sellers who posted 1st feedback lost control of the transaction. Buyer could just run wild, threaten stuff, and then post bad feedback, and there was nothing seller could do.
On the other hand, if seller waited for buyer to leave 1st fb, seller retained the right to retaliate. A neg for a neg. It worked. Buyers quickly learned to not leave negs. The power was irresistible, and 95% of sellers came to be "fb last".
Unfortunately, a lot of sellers became careless under this protection, and a small minority actually exploited the situation by shipping shoddy stuff. Buyers were leaving ebay in droves, even as they were arriving in response to ads. Eventually, new incoming buyers were greatly outnumbered by outgoing buyers, and ebay had to take action.
In May, 2008, Ebay changed the rules. No longer could sellers post negative fb for buyers.
This removed any important power gained by withholding 1st fb. It also removed any real informational content in buyer fb, which has become a combination of "thank you" and a count of things bought.
So we come to an era where there is no reason to withhold 1st fb, and no reason to be too bothered by missing feedback. And yet, we find some buyers who are "feedback cranks", willing to make a fuss over missing fb. And, somewhat oddly, we find some sellers who are cantankerous enough to refuse 1st fb.
I suggest that a seller who refuses 1st fb is like a driver who refuses to wear a seat belt. Sure, it works, indefinitely. But one event, and the lesson could be costly. As a seller, I leave feedback as part of the shipping process. I advise that the item has shipped, and I thank buyer.
And for buyers, it really doesn't matter. The feedback count does not affect your relationship with ebay or sellers. It is a good thing to build it up if you eventually want to sell. As a buyer, I leave feedback when I'm happy with the stuff, and I don't notice whether seller has left fb at that time or not. Buyer's rights to Ebay protection are not compromised for having left good feedback.
Sunday, October 25, 2009
Out of Stock
There's a bit of tension among sellers regarding out of stock.
For most sellers, the only way they encounter out of stock is by some actual error. The error might be:
1. When it comes time to ship, the item can't be found.
2. The item is discovered, by seller, to be significantly not as described. As in broken.
3. Seller realizes after close of auction that she lacks the legal right to ship the item.
Now while we would not like to encourage such errors, surely they're not the kind of thing which deserves severe punishment.
Consider the more common reasons a seller does not ship:
1. Seller offered the item for sale in a different venue, and sold it out from under the ebay buyer.
2. Seller was unhappy with the final value, and reports the item as lost or damaged.
3. Seller's drop shipper reported the item out of stock.
The problem is, we cannot know which sellers are which without keeping score.
As an ebay seller, I do not want to share that title with sellers who are "doing" that final category. Observe, sellers in that category are no doubt playing some kind of mind game, imagining that "doing my best" is what is required, as compared to "avoiding things which are causing a bad buyer experience". Sg51 strongly believes that sellers who are playing that game should be given undesirable feedback, so that they will be motivated to make necessary changes.
A seller who is in that zone can do the right thing by:
1. During the final 12 hours of an auction, decline alternative sales. Before that, an alternative sale can result in the cancellation of the auction.
2. Set either first bid or reserve to yield an acceptable amount when that is important.
3. Evaluate any dropshipper for reliability, and do business only with those who are reliable.
For most sellers, the only way they encounter out of stock is by some actual error. The error might be:
1. When it comes time to ship, the item can't be found.
2. The item is discovered, by seller, to be significantly not as described. As in broken.
3. Seller realizes after close of auction that she lacks the legal right to ship the item.
Now while we would not like to encourage such errors, surely they're not the kind of thing which deserves severe punishment.
Consider the more common reasons a seller does not ship:
1. Seller offered the item for sale in a different venue, and sold it out from under the ebay buyer.
2. Seller was unhappy with the final value, and reports the item as lost or damaged.
3. Seller's drop shipper reported the item out of stock.
The problem is, we cannot know which sellers are which without keeping score.
As an ebay seller, I do not want to share that title with sellers who are "doing" that final category. Observe, sellers in that category are no doubt playing some kind of mind game, imagining that "doing my best" is what is required, as compared to "avoiding things which are causing a bad buyer experience". Sg51 strongly believes that sellers who are playing that game should be given undesirable feedback, so that they will be motivated to make necessary changes.
A seller who is in that zone can do the right thing by:
1. During the final 12 hours of an auction, decline alternative sales. Before that, an alternative sale can result in the cancellation of the auction.
2. Set either first bid or reserve to yield an acceptable amount when that is important.
3. Evaluate any dropshipper for reliability, and do business only with those who are reliable.
Blocking Buyers
It's common on the ebay boards to threaten to block buyers who seem ungrateful regarding seller performance.
This is largely, but not entirely unreasonable.
Most dings are the result of some seller behavior which seller should in fact change.
Many sellers fail to evaluate the blocking equation properly.
Here's the two truths:
1. Blocking a random buyer will have no effect on anything
2. Blocking a buyer who has bought seller's stuff before will cost a seller money.
The latter presumes that the stuff seller seller sells is useful in qty more than one. If not, blocking a buyer will have no effect on anything.
Buyers tend to buy in category - time spurts. That is, a buyer will be looking for some class of cutters for a week or a season, and then, not so much. The buyer moves on to some other category, or comes and goes with respect to ebay as a whole.
Sellers, on the other hand, tend to be much more stable. They sell the same kind of stuff until it's not working any more. Particularly with respect to auctions, these sellers are, at any point in time, probably dependent on 2-5 buyers who are interested and qualified to set the final price of the stuff. Block one of them, and the final value goes down. Block two of them, and the final value might now be set by what could have been the 4th place bidder. Real money.
That doesn't meant that some buyers should not be blocked. It is quite possible for a buyer to cost a seller far more money than the final value on an item or so per week. The buyers which should be blocked are chronic bad feedback reporters. Watch out for:
1. A history of soft positives, >10% left.
2. A history of neg/neut in almost any quantity which were replied to by what appears to have been a seller who had done all the right things. I do not count "out of stock" negs as indicating a cranky buyer.
3. An across the board star ding.
These indicate a buyer which is leaving imprecise negative feedback, something a seller cannot much avoid other than by declining this buyer's business.
Seller must be very alert to the clues of isolated low stars. Whatever that was about, it will probably reappear if not fixed. The solution is to fix the problem, not to block this buyer.
Most common:
1. Ambiguous listing allowed buyer to form an incorrect impression.
2. High shipping charges.
This is largely, but not entirely unreasonable.
Most dings are the result of some seller behavior which seller should in fact change.
Many sellers fail to evaluate the blocking equation properly.
Here's the two truths:
1. Blocking a random buyer will have no effect on anything
2. Blocking a buyer who has bought seller's stuff before will cost a seller money.
The latter presumes that the stuff seller seller sells is useful in qty more than one. If not, blocking a buyer will have no effect on anything.
Buyers tend to buy in category - time spurts. That is, a buyer will be looking for some class of cutters for a week or a season, and then, not so much. The buyer moves on to some other category, or comes and goes with respect to ebay as a whole.
Sellers, on the other hand, tend to be much more stable. They sell the same kind of stuff until it's not working any more. Particularly with respect to auctions, these sellers are, at any point in time, probably dependent on 2-5 buyers who are interested and qualified to set the final price of the stuff. Block one of them, and the final value goes down. Block two of them, and the final value might now be set by what could have been the 4th place bidder. Real money.
That doesn't meant that some buyers should not be blocked. It is quite possible for a buyer to cost a seller far more money than the final value on an item or so per week. The buyers which should be blocked are chronic bad feedback reporters. Watch out for:
1. A history of soft positives, >10% left.
2. A history of neg/neut in almost any quantity which were replied to by what appears to have been a seller who had done all the right things. I do not count "out of stock" negs as indicating a cranky buyer.
3. An across the board star ding.
These indicate a buyer which is leaving imprecise negative feedback, something a seller cannot much avoid other than by declining this buyer's business.
Seller must be very alert to the clues of isolated low stars. Whatever that was about, it will probably reappear if not fixed. The solution is to fix the problem, not to block this buyer.
Most common:
1. Ambiguous listing allowed buyer to form an incorrect impression.
2. High shipping charges.
Saturday, October 24, 2009
Go Donahoe
Some sellers have been critical of feedback changes which eliminated their ability to post negative to buyers (in May, 2008).
The era during which buyers were threatened by negative fb was disastrous for ebay as well as ebay's current sellers. The ebay transaction was largely controlled by sellers, who threatened to post negative feedback should buyer complain. Under this protection, some sellers became careless and others actively exploited the control, shipping shoddy product. The net result was that buyers who had a bad experience simply left ebay and told their friends. It was common, and accelerated the ebay saturation point by years.
I for one would like to publicly thank John Donahoe for having the insight to understand what was going on, and to change it.
Buyers need a good experience, so that they will come back and buy again. Maybe they will buy from me next time. Maybe from you.
The era during which buyers were threatened by negative fb was disastrous for ebay as well as ebay's current sellers. The ebay transaction was largely controlled by sellers, who threatened to post negative feedback should buyer complain. Under this protection, some sellers became careless and others actively exploited the control, shipping shoddy product. The net result was that buyers who had a bad experience simply left ebay and told their friends. It was common, and accelerated the ebay saturation point by years.
I for one would like to publicly thank John Donahoe for having the insight to understand what was going on, and to change it.
Buyers need a good experience, so that they will come back and buy again. Maybe they will buy from me next time. Maybe from you.
Ebay's feedback board
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/forum/Feedback/113
Posters to that forum are welcome and encouraged to post comments here.
Please don't bring any personal feuds, or off-topic stuff like politics or postings seeking commercial gain. Just not interesting.
Posters to that forum are welcome and encouraged to post comments here.
Please don't bring any personal feuds, or off-topic stuff like politics or postings seeking commercial gain. Just not interesting.
The Nightmare of Echecks
Paypal doesn't like credit card fees, which is understandable, but at odds with the basic flow of money in mail delivery commerce these days.
Somewhat unadvertised, an Ebay buyer can buy with no paypal account, and pay by credit card through paypal. This is recommended, but Paypal sets up some gotcha's, on a path which seeks to drive payments away from credit cards and toward direct debit from a checking account (which is much cheaper for PayPal). Once a credit card has been used for a paypal account, it will not be accepted for payment outside of a paypal account.
It's actually convenient to have a credit card on file with a Paypal account. I have such an account. Near as I can tell, the worst nuisance is that they start bugging you to add a bank account. A buyer who adds a bank account is set up for the Nightmare of Echecks.
Once a bank account is on file, it becomes the default payment source for all paypal payments. This can be overridden on each payment, by selecting the credit card on file.
However, if the credit card:
1. is selected for use, but the charge is declined for any reason
2. is or is not selected for use, but has reached its expiration date
Paypal will convert the payment to type "Echeck".
If this meant simply that the amount was debited from the checking account, failing if funds were not available, it wouldn't be so bad. That's not quite what it means. It means that Paypal tried to debit the checking account, with no immediate reporting of the result. If it failed, they will try again later. Echecks take 4-6 days to sort out, regardless of whether the buyer has funds in the checking account or not.
During this time:
-Seller is advised that payment has been made by echeck, which has not cleared as yet.
-The money has usually been debited from buyer's checking account. Buyer has paid.
This might be good for Paypal, but it's bad for buyer and a nightmare for seller.
Buyer has paid, but seller is not going to ship for most of a week. Buyer will understandably see that as less than 5 star shipping time. Seller ends up with undesirable feedback, that being a shipping star ding, for nothing more than bad luck.
Seller cannot refuse to accept eChecks.
While the eCheck is awaiting clearing, even if seller is willing to take the chance and ship before it cleared (to protect feedback rating), Paypal shipping does not allow that. The shipping label cannot be generated. It is presumably possible to go back to ebay, mark the item as "paid", and then generate the shipping label through paypal.
Solution.
Eliminate echecks. In cases where seller fraud seems some potential threat, hold the funds while reporting them as cleared, such that seller can ship immediately. In cases where the bank declines the charge, report that to buyer as a failed payment.
Somewhat unadvertised, an Ebay buyer can buy with no paypal account, and pay by credit card through paypal. This is recommended, but Paypal sets up some gotcha's, on a path which seeks to drive payments away from credit cards and toward direct debit from a checking account (which is much cheaper for PayPal). Once a credit card has been used for a paypal account, it will not be accepted for payment outside of a paypal account.
It's actually convenient to have a credit card on file with a Paypal account. I have such an account. Near as I can tell, the worst nuisance is that they start bugging you to add a bank account. A buyer who adds a bank account is set up for the Nightmare of Echecks.
Once a bank account is on file, it becomes the default payment source for all paypal payments. This can be overridden on each payment, by selecting the credit card on file.
However, if the credit card:
1. is selected for use, but the charge is declined for any reason
2. is or is not selected for use, but has reached its expiration date
Paypal will convert the payment to type "Echeck".
If this meant simply that the amount was debited from the checking account, failing if funds were not available, it wouldn't be so bad. That's not quite what it means. It means that Paypal tried to debit the checking account, with no immediate reporting of the result. If it failed, they will try again later. Echecks take 4-6 days to sort out, regardless of whether the buyer has funds in the checking account or not.
During this time:
-Seller is advised that payment has been made by echeck, which has not cleared as yet.
-The money has usually been debited from buyer's checking account. Buyer has paid.
This might be good for Paypal, but it's bad for buyer and a nightmare for seller.
Buyer has paid, but seller is not going to ship for most of a week. Buyer will understandably see that as less than 5 star shipping time. Seller ends up with undesirable feedback, that being a shipping star ding, for nothing more than bad luck.
Seller cannot refuse to accept eChecks.
While the eCheck is awaiting clearing, even if seller is willing to take the chance and ship before it cleared (to protect feedback rating), Paypal shipping does not allow that. The shipping label cannot be generated. It is presumably possible to go back to ebay, mark the item as "paid", and then generate the shipping label through paypal.
Solution.
Eliminate echecks. In cases where seller fraud seems some potential threat, hold the funds while reporting them as cleared, such that seller can ship immediately. In cases where the bank declines the charge, report that to buyer as a failed payment.
Feedback from NPBs
It might seem an overly harsh place to start.
The worst of Ebay. We'll get to other issues later, including the best of ebay. But this topic gets intense attention on the ebay boards, and deserves a separate discussion beyond ebay content ownership.
The two worst, as I see it, at the moment:
1. Fear of undesirable feedback from non-paying bidders.
2. Paypal Echecks.
First off, let's get past the naive view: NPBs should not be allowed to post negative fb. There are plenty of occasions when NPBs should be allowed to post neg, and if it were not for the potential for such negs, the incidence of seller misbehavior would rise. These cases all involve a bidder who is willing to pay, but seller is refusing to complete the transaction as advertised. The two most common examples are "out of stock" and "refusal to ship for free as advertised". We need a way to passively record such events on seller's record.
However, the vast majority of NPB feedback comes from buyers who simply did not pay, and were annoyed by seller's reporting them to ebay (as part of reclaiming the final value fee).
Seller should have no fear that a buyer who did not pay, by buyer's choice, will post undesirable feedback.
There already exists a mechanism for buyers to report Non Performing Sellers, which is Ebay's term for sellers who refuse to complete the transaction as advertised. This can and should serve as the primary path to record NPS events. Perhaps a standing NPS strike could enable undesirable feedback, but just as easily, the NPS strike could have even more effect than undesirable feedback. An NPB who starts out to post fb (or has posted fb in the past) should be directed to the NPS report mechanism, while by default the feedback is removed. This includes positive feedback with unknown stars. There is little value in feedback from a bidder who refused to pay.
The worst of Ebay. We'll get to other issues later, including the best of ebay. But this topic gets intense attention on the ebay boards, and deserves a separate discussion beyond ebay content ownership.
The two worst, as I see it, at the moment:
1. Fear of undesirable feedback from non-paying bidders.
2. Paypal Echecks.
First off, let's get past the naive view: NPBs should not be allowed to post negative fb. There are plenty of occasions when NPBs should be allowed to post neg, and if it were not for the potential for such negs, the incidence of seller misbehavior would rise. These cases all involve a bidder who is willing to pay, but seller is refusing to complete the transaction as advertised. The two most common examples are "out of stock" and "refusal to ship for free as advertised". We need a way to passively record such events on seller's record.
However, the vast majority of NPB feedback comes from buyers who simply did not pay, and were annoyed by seller's reporting them to ebay (as part of reclaiming the final value fee).
Seller should have no fear that a buyer who did not pay, by buyer's choice, will post undesirable feedback.
There already exists a mechanism for buyers to report Non Performing Sellers, which is Ebay's term for sellers who refuse to complete the transaction as advertised. This can and should serve as the primary path to record NPS events. Perhaps a standing NPS strike could enable undesirable feedback, but just as easily, the NPS strike could have even more effect than undesirable feedback. An NPB who starts out to post fb (or has posted fb in the past) should be directed to the NPS report mechanism, while by default the feedback is removed. This includes positive feedback with unknown stars. There is little value in feedback from a bidder who refused to pay.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)