"I read your report regarding this eBay policy violation. We are very concerned about violations on the site and have thoroughly investigated your report. I did not find that a violation has occurred buyers are able to give negative feedback based on anything that occurs during a transaction including not receiving feedback. Buyers are able to leave feedback based on any of the seller's terms including those involving feedback.
Sincerely,
XXXXXX.
eBay Customer Support
Trust and Safety Operations"
Monday, April 26, 2010
Can't get it there in 30 days? Don't make the sale.
Synopsis: never ship an ebay item surface across an ocean.
One common category of off track transaction involves stuff which seller knows (and usually buyer agrees) will not make it there for 6 or 8 weeks.
The problem with these is that they implicitly require buyer to forgo any and all buyer protection.
The problem with that is that buyer is frequently unwilling to forgo such protection, and as the deadline approaches, starts to assert protection from Item Not Received (INR).
This usually happens when both buyer and seller agree to pay $30 surface shipping rather than $90 air shipping, US to Europe. Surface shipping will probably not get there in 30 days. It probably will get there in 60 days, but sometimes takes 90.
If buyer is going to assert rights to protection, buyer has to file the INR before 45 days. That's a problem. Once the stuff is in transit, seller can't do much to speed it up, and paypal will refund buyer. An honest buyer will repay when the stuff comes, of course, but some percentage won't get around to doing that.
Generally, items with size/value issues simply cannot be sold on ebay across an ocean.
Secondarily, we sometimes find "build to suit" items which seller isn't planning to ship until after a month. That doesn't work out either.
One common category of off track transaction involves stuff which seller knows (and usually buyer agrees) will not make it there for 6 or 8 weeks.
The problem with these is that they implicitly require buyer to forgo any and all buyer protection.
The problem with that is that buyer is frequently unwilling to forgo such protection, and as the deadline approaches, starts to assert protection from Item Not Received (INR).
This usually happens when both buyer and seller agree to pay $30 surface shipping rather than $90 air shipping, US to Europe. Surface shipping will probably not get there in 30 days. It probably will get there in 60 days, but sometimes takes 90.
If buyer is going to assert rights to protection, buyer has to file the INR before 45 days. That's a problem. Once the stuff is in transit, seller can't do much to speed it up, and paypal will refund buyer. An honest buyer will repay when the stuff comes, of course, but some percentage won't get around to doing that.
Generally, items with size/value issues simply cannot be sold on ebay across an ocean.
Secondarily, we sometimes find "build to suit" items which seller isn't planning to ship until after a month. That doesn't work out either.
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
Shiping gougers vs shipping gouge cranks
Ebay has always been a bit uneasy about buyers on campaigns.
Leave nearly all negs, and a buyer is likely to get momentarily suspended, and counseled to become more sociable.
On the other hand, ebay has always been more than a bit uneasy about shipping gougers.
One particularly obnoxious kind of shipping gouger is a seller who sells things cheap, under $6 or $7, but charges enough in the shipping to make it up.
These sellers have intense issues when someone wants to buy 10 of something. Say shipping is $2.50 (but it's going in an envelope for under $1). 10X 2.50 is $25. Fair shipping, maybe $4. However, if seller ships them for $4, seller might well lose money. Some sellers try to convince buyer to "see the discount", as compared to "see a fair price". So the seller would discount the $25 down to $18, and say "25% discount".
Others try to add a "handling charge per item". So our example seller would say "shipping is $4, but (as stated in the listing), I'm adding $1.50 per item after 1. Total shipping is $18.
In both cases, clearly the shipping charge is a windfall for seller. Ebay does not support such sellers.
But lately, we have seen the "gouge crank", a buyer who seems to delight in buying multiple low cost items, and negs if seller won't back off the gouge.
How this dilemma will be resolved is unknown.
Keep your eye on this buyer:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=*shop-in-amerika*&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Observe in particular two sets of negs.
One left 19 Apr 10.
One left 1 Apr 10.
It's not a real clean case. Buyer seems cranky in general.
Update 30 Apr 10: all fb left by this buyer has been removed.
Leave nearly all negs, and a buyer is likely to get momentarily suspended, and counseled to become more sociable.
On the other hand, ebay has always been more than a bit uneasy about shipping gougers.
One particularly obnoxious kind of shipping gouger is a seller who sells things cheap, under $6 or $7, but charges enough in the shipping to make it up.
These sellers have intense issues when someone wants to buy 10 of something. Say shipping is $2.50 (but it's going in an envelope for under $1). 10X 2.50 is $25. Fair shipping, maybe $4. However, if seller ships them for $4, seller might well lose money. Some sellers try to convince buyer to "see the discount", as compared to "see a fair price". So the seller would discount the $25 down to $18, and say "25% discount".
Others try to add a "handling charge per item". So our example seller would say "shipping is $4, but (as stated in the listing), I'm adding $1.50 per item after 1. Total shipping is $18.
In both cases, clearly the shipping charge is a windfall for seller. Ebay does not support such sellers.
But lately, we have seen the "gouge crank", a buyer who seems to delight in buying multiple low cost items, and negs if seller won't back off the gouge.
How this dilemma will be resolved is unknown.
Keep your eye on this buyer:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=*shop-in-amerika*&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Observe in particular two sets of negs.
One left 19 Apr 10.
One left 1 Apr 10.
It's not a real clean case. Buyer seems cranky in general.
Update 30 Apr 10: all fb left by this buyer has been removed.
Thursday, April 15, 2010
Negotiating Shipping costs and Sales Tax under threat of neg
We've seen a couple of these lately.
Buyer wins auction, but requests modification of shipping fee, threatening neg.
This one was a bit twisted, buyer requested modification of sales tax charge.
When seller refused, buyer negged.
Here was ebay's reply to seller's report of "extortion":
Thank you for again writing eBay in regard to your feedback extortion concerns. We're always concerned about policy violations, so we appreciate your report about your trading partner. I have read your emails and taken a close look at the situation you reported. Unfortunately, as stated in previous responses this doesn't qualify as Feedback Extortion. Negotiating shipping charges or taxes are not considered Feedback Extortion. Since a final decision has been made, we will not revisit this case. Although future emails from you will be read about this matter, unless they contain additional information for review, we will be unable to respond.
Buyer wins auction, but requests modification of shipping fee, threatening neg.
This one was a bit twisted, buyer requested modification of sales tax charge.
When seller refused, buyer negged.
Here was ebay's reply to seller's report of "extortion":
Thank you for again writing eBay in regard to your feedback extortion concerns. We're always concerned about policy violations, so we appreciate your report about your trading partner. I have read your emails and taken a close look at the situation you reported. Unfortunately, as stated in previous responses this doesn't qualify as Feedback Extortion. Negotiating shipping charges or taxes are not considered Feedback Extortion. Since a final decision has been made, we will not revisit this case. Although future emails from you will be read about this matter, unless they contain additional information for review, we will be unable to respond.
Sunday, April 11, 2010
Negs and canceled transactions
Some sellers have reported lately that they are protected from negs (actually, any fb) in the case of canceled transactions
Others report the opposite.
Near as I can tell, the blocked cases have all involved:
1. A bidder who did not pay.
2. A bidder who agreed to the cancellation.
More data solicited.
===
Well, that didn't take long.
A very quick report of "that's what I did, but I got fb anyway".
And then, it happened to me personally. As a buyer, I had to request cancellation, an accidental buy. No payment. Seller requested the cancellation, I agreed, done. I expected to be blocked from leaving fb, but no. it was still there. A day later, I went ahead and posted all good feedback, which now appears on seller's fb page.
Others report the opposite.
Near as I can tell, the blocked cases have all involved:
1. A bidder who did not pay.
2. A bidder who agreed to the cancellation.
More data solicited.
===
Well, that didn't take long.
A very quick report of "that's what I did, but I got fb anyway".
And then, it happened to me personally. As a buyer, I had to request cancellation, an accidental buy. No payment. Seller requested the cancellation, I agreed, done. I expected to be blocked from leaving fb, but no. it was still there. A day later, I went ahead and posted all good feedback, which now appears on seller's fb page.
Why it is ok to neg a seller over shipping charge.
Classic posting:
"Why does ebay allow buyers to neg over a shipping cost which was clearly stated?"
Answer:
Don't play dumb.
Low shipping costs attract views, but do so illicitly, and in an annoying fashion. When I'm looking for something I'm willing to pay $30 for, +$10 shipping because it will ship in a FRB, and I see one for $20, I'll sure check it out. And then I see the $20 UPS shipping fee. A marked up charge containing $12 or so profit.
I might buy it.
But I sure don't approve of how I was attracted, and I don't enjoy being part of seller's attempt to avoid fees.
I don't neg. I do post a low shipping fee DSR.
Others neg. Good. Sellers who pull this kind of thing need to be stopped.
"Why does ebay allow buyers to neg over a shipping cost which was clearly stated?"
Answer:
Don't play dumb.
Low shipping costs attract views, but do so illicitly, and in an annoying fashion. When I'm looking for something I'm willing to pay $30 for, +$10 shipping because it will ship in a FRB, and I see one for $20, I'll sure check it out. And then I see the $20 UPS shipping fee. A marked up charge containing $12 or so profit.
I might buy it.
But I sure don't approve of how I was attracted, and I don't enjoy being part of seller's attempt to avoid fees.
I don't neg. I do post a low shipping fee DSR.
Others neg. Good. Sellers who pull this kind of thing need to be stopped.
Monday, April 5, 2010
Extortion & shipping beefs
Posted to fb forum 5 Apr 10 by user jasonddority908. Bolding added:
THIS IS A COPY OF MY EMAIL FROM EBAY SAYING TO IS OK TO USE THREATS TO SELLERS OF BAD FEEDBACK IF YOU DO NOT THINK THER SHIPPING COST IS FAIR
Dear Jason, Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to your report of Feedback extortion from user "*shop-in-amerika*". We are very concerned about violations on the site and have thoroughly investigated your report. The eBay Privacy Policy prevents me from discussing the specifics of our investigation. I can tell you, however, that in this instance we didn't find evidence that a violation occurred. eBay can only take action on a case of Feedback extortion if it is very apparent that the buyer's intent is only to get more out of the seller than was originally listed in the auction. Additionally, we asked sellers to be more flexible on shipping and to be more reasonable on theshipping fee since it promotes good business on eBay. Please note that if a buyer requests to ask for a shipping discount with the threat of negative Feedback, we do not consider this extortion. Feedback Extortionis defined by a buyer or seller using the Feedback system to get goods or services outside of the transaction. In your case, the buyer is dissatisfied with your shipping fee charges. It is still your prerogative to refuse, but the buyer may leave Feedback either way. You can learn more about eBay's Feedback Extortion policy at the following link: Link Thank you for your time. Sincerely, LarisaeBay Customer Support______________________________
============================================================
8 Negs received 1 Apr 10
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=jasonddority908&ftab=AllFeedback&userblob=77DECF11BCA3FE63E7F6E6E71A9380399FF016824814FF242FD386497D0A81BEB1682F0F880450F7
THIS IS A COPY OF MY EMAIL FROM EBAY SAYING TO IS OK TO USE THREATS TO SELLERS OF BAD FEEDBACK IF YOU DO NOT THINK THER SHIPPING COST IS FAIR
Dear Jason, Thank you for contacting eBay in regard to your report of Feedback extortion from user "*shop-in-amerika*". We are very concerned about violations on the site and have thoroughly investigated your report. The eBay Privacy Policy prevents me from discussing the specifics of our investigation. I can tell you, however, that in this instance we didn't find evidence that a violation occurred. eBay can only take action on a case of Feedback extortion if it is very apparent that the buyer's intent is only to get more out of the seller than was originally listed in the auction. Additionally, we asked sellers to be more flexible on shipping and to be more reasonable on theshipping fee since it promotes good business on eBay. Please note that if a buyer requests to ask for a shipping discount with the threat of negative Feedback, we do not consider this extortion. Feedback Extortionis defined by a buyer or seller using the Feedback system to get goods or services outside of the transaction. In your case, the buyer is dissatisfied with your shipping fee charges. It is still your prerogative to refuse, but the buyer may leave Feedback either way. You can learn more about eBay's Feedback Extortion policy at the following link: Link Thank you for your time. Sincerely, LarisaeBay Customer Support______________________________
============================================================
8 Negs received 1 Apr 10
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=jasonddority908&ftab=AllFeedback&userblob=77DECF11BCA3FE63E7F6E6E71A9380399FF016824814FF242FD386497D0A81BEB1682F0F880450F7
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