Once a month or so, we encounter a new posting of the form:
I sent three emails asking if everything was ok, and if buyer would please leave feedback. Buyer left negative feedback. What should I do?
Dude. The one thing you did not want was feedback from someone who didn't want to leave you fb.
The real head slapper: half the time seller hasn't left fb for buyer while sending such begs.
Neutral: It is what it is?did not care for what I recieved so here is the feed back.
The rule of the day: leave sleeping dogs lie.
Saturday, January 23, 2010
Friday, January 22, 2010
Feedback hostility: a broken system
Basic equation. Buyers, particularly newbie buyers, buy stuff.
They expect their feedback to grow. It's a very cheap reward.
However, the way it works today, sellers have to leave such feedback.
Most do it normally, quickly, and in a friendly way.
A significant minority of sellers refuse to cooperate.
Buyers come to despise the uncooperative sellers.
Uncooperative sellers come to despise the buyers who are angry about no feedback.
For unknown reasons, Ebay somewhat protects sellers who refuse to cooperate. Nutty!
The content of feedback, since May 2008 when buyer feedback was required to be positive and sound positive, has been basically worthless.
Please Ebay: fix this broken system.
Get sellers out of the business of leaving feedback for buyers.
When buyer pays, bump buyer's "successful transactions number" automatically.
Some stress has an upside.
This stress is lose/lose.
They expect their feedback to grow. It's a very cheap reward.
However, the way it works today, sellers have to leave such feedback.
Most do it normally, quickly, and in a friendly way.
A significant minority of sellers refuse to cooperate.
Buyers come to despise the uncooperative sellers.
Uncooperative sellers come to despise the buyers who are angry about no feedback.
For unknown reasons, Ebay somewhat protects sellers who refuse to cooperate. Nutty!
The content of feedback, since May 2008 when buyer feedback was required to be positive and sound positive, has been basically worthless.
Please Ebay: fix this broken system.
Get sellers out of the business of leaving feedback for buyers.
When buyer pays, bump buyer's "successful transactions number" automatically.
Some stress has an upside.
This stress is lose/lose.
Customs Declarations
The law requires "actual value", and is quite vague regarding how that might be calculated. The clear intent is to make it illegal to declare a value way different from some honest valuation. There are more than one way to honestly value something.
Consider a more liquid market than ebay, the stock market. And we ask, what is the actual value of XYZ?
And while the market is open, we immediately come to two actual values: bid, ask.
If we were to be shipping a share of XYZ, either would be legal "actual values".
But what if we just used the price of the most recently one sold? Again, legal actual value.
And lastly, can't we just use what the buyer paid for it, even if that was quite a while ago and considerably different from today's calculation? We can.
So we end up with four different ways to calculate actual value.
1. bid
2. ask
3. last
4. what was paid for this particular one
Just from a common sense, do what's right for buyer, it is shown ideal to use the lowest of those four.
How to map that on to an ebay transaction is not that tricky.
Nonsensically, there is yet a 5th actual value: retail value. Some Ebay sellers have declared this as the actual value, so that their buyer will feel that they received a bargain. Legal, but way dumb.
Sensibly, there is a 6th actual value: wholesale value, a standing offer to sell by a wholesaler.
More grey:
a. what seller paid for it
b. what seller knows he can find another one about like it for
==============
Practical matters:
1. Some countries charge as high as a 30% sales-tax like fee on imported value.
2. Gift declarations can be a red flag.
3. Nearly all countries allow customs free delivery of a package worth less than US$20.
4. Never, every use a value higher than ebay sales value. It might be legal, but it will cost your buyer money, and your buyer will definitely be unhappy.
5. Your buyer will have the opportunity to refuse to pay the fee. If they do that, seller has a problem. The package will not be delivered, and seller will end up refunding.
6. Most countries refund any tax paid if/when the item is returned.
7. The incoming country is allowed to open any package they choose, and overrule the declared value with some value they choose.
Consider a more liquid market than ebay, the stock market. And we ask, what is the actual value of XYZ?
And while the market is open, we immediately come to two actual values: bid, ask.
If we were to be shipping a share of XYZ, either would be legal "actual values".
But what if we just used the price of the most recently one sold? Again, legal actual value.
And lastly, can't we just use what the buyer paid for it, even if that was quite a while ago and considerably different from today's calculation? We can.
So we end up with four different ways to calculate actual value.
1. bid
2. ask
3. last
4. what was paid for this particular one
Just from a common sense, do what's right for buyer, it is shown ideal to use the lowest of those four.
How to map that on to an ebay transaction is not that tricky.
Nonsensically, there is yet a 5th actual value: retail value. Some Ebay sellers have declared this as the actual value, so that their buyer will feel that they received a bargain. Legal, but way dumb.
Sensibly, there is a 6th actual value: wholesale value, a standing offer to sell by a wholesaler.
More grey:
a. what seller paid for it
b. what seller knows he can find another one about like it for
==============
Practical matters:
1. Some countries charge as high as a 30% sales-tax like fee on imported value.
2. Gift declarations can be a red flag.
3. Nearly all countries allow customs free delivery of a package worth less than US$20.
4. Never, every use a value higher than ebay sales value. It might be legal, but it will cost your buyer money, and your buyer will definitely be unhappy.
5. Your buyer will have the opportunity to refuse to pay the fee. If they do that, seller has a problem. The package will not be delivered, and seller will end up refunding.
6. Most countries refund any tax paid if/when the item is returned.
7. The incoming country is allowed to open any package they choose, and overrule the declared value with some value they choose.
Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Buyers Don't Read
The most common complaint on the fb board, by far, is "buyers don't read".
It's true. And sellers suffer all the consequences.
The underlying problem is a misconception by some sellers that so long as the listing includes full information somewhere, then seller will be protected from the consequences of a buyer who doesn't read the whole thing before buying.
It just doesn't work that way, and quite deliberately so.
Seller must communicate accurately, even when buyer doesn't read, or seller will suffer the consequences, usually undesirable feedback, a return for refund at seller's loss, or both.
Guidelines:
1. Think of the title as setting the state, and the description as setting the city. No matter what the description says, it cannot override the title. Bad news must appear in the title first.
2. Think of the picture as a trump card. If the picture shows three of them and the title says one, buyer will expect three. If the picture shows a star on top, no amount of disclaimer is going to protect a seller who ships one missing the star.
3. Understand the concept of a Natural Born SNAD. A listing which is inconsistent with itself. This is an invitation for not only disaster, but will attract sophisticated buyers looking to exploit the situation. A listing with a significant description error cannot be fixed unless the error can be edited out. Usually, the listing must be canceled by ending early. Do not ever add text to the end which tries to override the prior description.
Keep in mind: if the auction says two things, one of them is false. A seller who ships an item with a false description is set up for a disastrous, very costly result.
One common type of Buyer Can't Read SNAD is when the item looks like something more valuable at first glance. Examples:
In most cases where this goes off track, it is discovered that seller used a picture of the real thing, and tried to straighten the confusion out with text.
For the 3rd time: seller, not buyer is the on in line for grief when this kind of thing goes off track.
It's true. And sellers suffer all the consequences.
The underlying problem is a misconception by some sellers that so long as the listing includes full information somewhere, then seller will be protected from the consequences of a buyer who doesn't read the whole thing before buying.
It just doesn't work that way, and quite deliberately so.
Seller must communicate accurately, even when buyer doesn't read, or seller will suffer the consequences, usually undesirable feedback, a return for refund at seller's loss, or both.
Guidelines:
1. Think of the title as setting the state, and the description as setting the city. No matter what the description says, it cannot override the title. Bad news must appear in the title first.
2. Think of the picture as a trump card. If the picture shows three of them and the title says one, buyer will expect three. If the picture shows a star on top, no amount of disclaimer is going to protect a seller who ships one missing the star.
3. Understand the concept of a Natural Born SNAD. A listing which is inconsistent with itself. This is an invitation for not only disaster, but will attract sophisticated buyers looking to exploit the situation. A listing with a significant description error cannot be fixed unless the error can be edited out. Usually, the listing must be canceled by ending early. Do not ever add text to the end which tries to override the prior description.
Keep in mind: if the auction says two things, one of them is false. A seller who ships an item with a false description is set up for a disastrous, very costly result.
One common type of Buyer Can't Read SNAD is when the item looks like something more valuable at first glance. Examples:
- toy item bought as the real thing
- add on bought as the base item
- container bought as contents (this one is now listed as a policy violation unless the container could be bought by itself new)
- .pdf file bought as a book
In most cases where this goes off track, it is discovered that seller used a picture of the real thing, and tried to straighten the confusion out with text.
For the 3rd time: seller, not buyer is the on in line for grief when this kind of thing goes off track.
Monday, January 18, 2010
Terms Of Service and Protection from Negs
Reading an Ebay listing can be very intimidating. Sellers sometimes make vile threats, refuse to accept returns, or what not. Mostly, TOS are just so much attempted intimidation of newbies. Most have nothing to do with ebay protecting seller from any feedback buyer might leave for seller.
There are two relevant rules/procedures.
1. Unwanted bidder.
2. UnPaid Item
Invoking "Unwanted/Malicious Bidder" can sometimes yield protection from a neg, but only in a very few kinds of cases:
1. Buyer requests shipping to a place where seller does not ship.
2. Buyer demands to pay in a way seller does not accept.
3. Buyer has bid on this item despite being blocked on a different id.
4. Buyer has bid on this item maliciously, usually as payback for a neg going the other way.
NON-protection from neg involving unwanted/malicious when seller refuses to complete the transaction:
1. Buyer has too few fb.
2. Buyer is from some area seller doesn't want to ship to, but the listing included shipping to that area.
3. Buyer made demands which seller did not agree to.
Invoking the UnPaid Item dispute protects seller in most ordinary cases where buyer did not pay. This includes cases where buyer did not pay as much as was agreed, and was refunded.
NON-protection from neg involving a UPI is the rule whenever buyer did pay in full, but was refunded for any reason. NON-protection also follows from issues which arise between end of auction and payment.
1. Buyer paid, but seller's TOS "required" payment quicker than buyer paid
2. Buyer asserts some real issue with seller, or the stuff, regarding why it did not make sense to pay. Such as:
a. Seller explains that the item is broken, lost, fake, or significantly different than described.
b. Buyer identified some kind of discrepancy, such as the picture showed the wrong thing.
c. Buyer identified an undisclosed wreck which a car had been in.
d. Buyer requested authentication, which was declined.
=================
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Ask-Griff/Ask-Griff-April/520109343&
There are two relevant rules/procedures.
1. Unwanted bidder.
2. UnPaid Item
Invoking "Unwanted/Malicious Bidder" can sometimes yield protection from a neg, but only in a very few kinds of cases:
1. Buyer requests shipping to a place where seller does not ship.
2. Buyer demands to pay in a way seller does not accept.
3. Buyer has bid on this item despite being blocked on a different id.
4. Buyer has bid on this item maliciously, usually as payback for a neg going the other way.
NON-protection from neg involving unwanted/malicious when seller refuses to complete the transaction:
1. Buyer has too few fb.
2. Buyer is from some area seller doesn't want to ship to, but the listing included shipping to that area.
3. Buyer made demands which seller did not agree to.
Invoking the UnPaid Item dispute protects seller in most ordinary cases where buyer did not pay. This includes cases where buyer did not pay as much as was agreed, and was refunded.
NON-protection from neg involving a UPI is the rule whenever buyer did pay in full, but was refunded for any reason. NON-protection also follows from issues which arise between end of auction and payment.
1. Buyer paid, but seller's TOS "required" payment quicker than buyer paid
2. Buyer asserts some real issue with seller, or the stuff, regarding why it did not make sense to pay. Such as:
a. Seller explains that the item is broken, lost, fake, or significantly different than described.
b. Buyer identified some kind of discrepancy, such as the picture showed the wrong thing.
c. Buyer identified an undisclosed wreck which a car had been in.
d. Buyer requested authentication, which was declined.
=================
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Ask-Griff/Ask-Griff-April/520109343&
Friday, January 15, 2010
Paypal shipping labels: please fix.
Paypal shipping labels are very handy, but there are a couple of very annoying behaviors.
1. FIXED. There are three sizes of USPS Flat Rate Box. Paypal shipping only supports one of them
Update: fixed 23 Feb 2010.
2. I sometimes need to create a label with a different return address. Paypal labels will allow changing the return address, but not the return name.
1. FIXED. There are three sizes of USPS Flat Rate Box. Paypal shipping only supports one of them
Update: fixed 23 Feb 2010.
2. I sometimes need to create a label with a different return address. Paypal labels will allow changing the return address, but not the return name.
Thursday, January 14, 2010
Acronyms, abbreviations, and insiderisms
AI: Auction Interference. When someone takes out board anger by maliciously buying from a poster, or sends email to other buyers.
B&M: Brick & Mortar. A real, physical store as compared to online selling.
BBL: Blocked Bidder List. A list of ids which cannot bid on a seller's auctions.
BIN: Buy It Now
BO: Best Offer, optionally offered with any BIN
bump: Original Postings age off over time. If someone posts a reply, they come back to the front. Known as a bump.
CS: Customer Service at ebay
CSR: Customer Service Representative at ebay
cye: Check (or see) Your Email (poster has sent private email to the other poster).
DC: Delivery Confirmation. Required by Paypal seller protection.
DSR: Detailed Seller Rating. The stars.
EB: Empty Box. The board software allows posters to see other postings of specified posters as empty boxes rather than seeing the content.
fb: feedback
FRB: Flat Rate Box, three sizes available from USPS
FRE: Flat Rate Envelope, from USPS
FVF: Final Value Fee
GWP: Gift With Purchase (Marked "Not For Resale", but legal to sell on ebay)
INAD: Item Not As Described (same as SNAD).
INR: Item Not Received, a dispute buyer files with ebay
IPR: Immediate Payment Required. Optional with BIN, works like regular online purchase. Bidder has to pay before it is considered bought.
KWS: KeyWord spamming. Using a brand name in the title which does not describe the item being sold.
LPU: Local Pick Up (in contrast to shipping)
NARU: Not A Registered User. Usually a user who has been kicked off by ebay.
neg: negative feedback, or the act of posting negative feedback
NFB: Negative FeedBack
NPB: Non Paying Bidder
NPS: Non Performing Seller. Any seller who declines/refuses to ship what was sold.
NWOT: New WithOut Tags
NWT: New With Tags
OP: original posting, or original poster, the poster who started a thread.
OTP: Other Than Positive fb
pink: An ebay employee who posts to one of the discussion boards. The posting has a pink header.
pink slap: When a board moderator removes a posting for some violation.
PITA: Pain In The Ass
poof: what happens to a posting or thread which is removed by a moderator
posting ID: an ebay id used for posting, but not other activity. With fewer than 10 fb, limited to 10 posts per day.
PP: PayPal
RC: Resolution Center, for submitting disputes and complaints
restricted: unable to list new items for sale, usually due to bad feedback. Contrast to suspended.
RL: Real Life. As in causing someone real life pain because you don't like their posting.
RLI: Real Life Interference.
SC: Seller Central, a different Ebay board to discuss such issues.
SCO: Second Chance Offer, for when 1st place bidder flakes out, or seller has more than 1 to sell
SDC: Signature Delivery Confirmation. Required by paypal seller protection for items > $250.
SNAD: Significantly Not As Described. A dispute buyer files with ebay, and also a claim made by buyer in some communication with seller.
snipe(1): to post on a 100 boundary, such as the 100th reply in a thread. 1000 boundaries are particularly sought after.
snipe(2): to post the first reply, usually to a question, but also to some threads.
sock: A posting id operated by a regular poster, usually intended to be disruptive, sometimes to get around a suspension of posting privilege, and often for both. Recognized by very low feedback.
SR: Self Report. You can't edit a prior posting, but you can get it removed by reporting it as its author.
star: A detailed seller rating. 1 to 5 stars.
STR: Sell Through Rate. Sales/listings.
suspended(1): totally barred from any Ebay activity. NARU. Contrast to restricted.
suspended(2): Board posting privileges are revoked for some period.
troll(1): an insincere posting or poster, sometimes for fun, sometimes with malice (from the bridge troll)
troll(2): a posting intended to attract strong reaction (from the fishing troll)
UA: UnAuthorized use of a credit card, one of the things seller protection protects against
UPI: UnPaid Item (a dispute seller files with ebay)
vacation: the period when a poster (or less likely a seller) is barred from posting to the board (or selling).
VERO: Verified Rights Owner. The ebay mechanism which allows formal reporting of counterfeits by the rights owner, resulting in the listing being removed.
zero: a poster with all of zero (or private fb), and low number of board postings. Confirmed by new id icon, a shiny kind of person.
B&M: Brick & Mortar. A real, physical store as compared to online selling.
BBL: Blocked Bidder List. A list of ids which cannot bid on a seller's auctions.
BIN: Buy It Now
BO: Best Offer, optionally offered with any BIN
bump: Original Postings age off over time. If someone posts a reply, they come back to the front. Known as a bump.
CS: Customer Service at ebay
CSR: Customer Service Representative at ebay
cye: Check (or see) Your Email (poster has sent private email to the other poster).
DC: Delivery Confirmation. Required by Paypal seller protection.
DSR: Detailed Seller Rating. The stars.
EB: Empty Box. The board software allows posters to see other postings of specified posters as empty boxes rather than seeing the content.
fb: feedback
FRB: Flat Rate Box, three sizes available from USPS
FRE: Flat Rate Envelope, from USPS
FVF: Final Value Fee
GWP: Gift With Purchase (Marked "Not For Resale", but legal to sell on ebay)
INAD: Item Not As Described (same as SNAD).
INR: Item Not Received, a dispute buyer files with ebay
IPR: Immediate Payment Required. Optional with BIN, works like regular online purchase. Bidder has to pay before it is considered bought.
KWS: KeyWord spamming. Using a brand name in the title which does not describe the item being sold.
LPU: Local Pick Up (in contrast to shipping)
NARU: Not A Registered User. Usually a user who has been kicked off by ebay.
neg: negative feedback, or the act of posting negative feedback
NFB: Negative FeedBack
NPB: Non Paying Bidder
NPS: Non Performing Seller. Any seller who declines/refuses to ship what was sold.
NWOT: New WithOut Tags
NWT: New With Tags
OP: original posting, or original poster, the poster who started a thread.
OTP: Other Than Positive fb
pink: An ebay employee who posts to one of the discussion boards. The posting has a pink header.
pink slap: When a board moderator removes a posting for some violation.
PITA: Pain In The Ass
poof: what happens to a posting or thread which is removed by a moderator
posting ID: an ebay id used for posting, but not other activity. With fewer than 10 fb, limited to 10 posts per day.
PP: PayPal
RC: Resolution Center, for submitting disputes and complaints
restricted: unable to list new items for sale, usually due to bad feedback. Contrast to suspended.
RL: Real Life. As in causing someone real life pain because you don't like their posting.
RLI: Real Life Interference.
SC: Seller Central, a different Ebay board to discuss such issues.
SCO: Second Chance Offer, for when 1st place bidder flakes out, or seller has more than 1 to sell
SDC: Signature Delivery Confirmation. Required by paypal seller protection for items > $250.
SNAD: Significantly Not As Described. A dispute buyer files with ebay, and also a claim made by buyer in some communication with seller.
snipe(1): to post on a 100 boundary, such as the 100th reply in a thread. 1000 boundaries are particularly sought after.
snipe(2): to post the first reply, usually to a question, but also to some threads.
sock: A posting id operated by a regular poster, usually intended to be disruptive, sometimes to get around a suspension of posting privilege, and often for both. Recognized by very low feedback.
SR: Self Report. You can't edit a prior posting, but you can get it removed by reporting it as its author.
star: A detailed seller rating. 1 to 5 stars.
STR: Sell Through Rate. Sales/listings.
suspended(1): totally barred from any Ebay activity. NARU. Contrast to restricted.
suspended(2): Board posting privileges are revoked for some period.
troll(1): an insincere posting or poster, sometimes for fun, sometimes with malice (from the bridge troll)
troll(2): a posting intended to attract strong reaction (from the fishing troll)
UA: UnAuthorized use of a credit card, one of the things seller protection protects against
UPI: UnPaid Item (a dispute seller files with ebay)
vacation: the period when a poster (or less likely a seller) is barred from posting to the board (or selling).
VERO: Verified Rights Owner. The ebay mechanism which allows formal reporting of counterfeits by the rights owner, resulting in the listing being removed.
zero: a poster with all of zero (or private fb), and low number of board postings. Confirmed by new id icon, a shiny kind of person.
Neg for seller not leaving 1st fb
This question gets discussed at length on the fb board.
Back in 2008, after the feedback changes to disallow buyer negs, some buyers started posting negative to all sellers who did not post 1st fb.
And the negs were removed.
But later, ebay ceased to remove such negs. In fact, it's not clear that they ever had a policy to remove them. External observations are consistent with one or two CS reps being willing to remove them, but eventually being told not to do so.
While it is far easier just to leave a low star or two, some buyers want to neg.
While this was in doubt, examples of un-removed negs were collected and archived here. After a while, the trend seemed clear, none were removed. Thus, the collection of examples has ended.
11 Feb 2010 Update: here is a current example. This buyer has left two negs, on 10 Feb. See if they stay or go:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=alexgaby1012&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
15 Feb Second Test Case
Neg left 14 Feb
Received quick Doesnt leave fdback unless he gets fdback 1st. Poor bus. strategy
(link accidentally deleted)
11 Mar Third Test Case
Neut left 10 Mar
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tarasadies&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Here's one standing from a long time ago, which makes one wonder if the removals were done by some rogue employee:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=gene9404&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Here's one from 5 Mar 2010
When i have to leave feedback first as a buyer it is negative.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=trailing.on&iid=-1&de=off&items=200
Here's one from 1 May 09 (and a couple more from this fb crank):
Plays feedback manipulation games... not good. Great product, A-
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=1hobbyman1&iid=-1&de=off&items=100
This fb crank doesn't neg, but does suggest posting a '2' DSR:
# If the seller leaves feedback in a timely manner, I will give "Good" Communication rating (more on ratings in the next section)
# If the seller fails to leave feedback, I will give them grace period of at least 3 days (usually, that's actually a week or more) and if nothing happens, eventually I will leave feedback saying that the seller failed to leave feedback upon the receipt of the payment, and the Communication rating will be "Poor"
# If the seller does not act politely, the Communication rating will be "Very Poor", or in rare cases I reserve the right to leave Neutral feedback even if I'm happy with the item
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=wesha_the_leopard
Two more neutrals, left in sept, 09:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=kdryan4&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
New item from May 10, see neg from 25 May:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=old-mopar&ftab=AllFeedback
Back in 2008, after the feedback changes to disallow buyer negs, some buyers started posting negative to all sellers who did not post 1st fb.
And the negs were removed.
But later, ebay ceased to remove such negs. In fact, it's not clear that they ever had a policy to remove them. External observations are consistent with one or two CS reps being willing to remove them, but eventually being told not to do so.
While it is far easier just to leave a low star or two, some buyers want to neg.
While this was in doubt, examples of un-removed negs were collected and archived here. After a while, the trend seemed clear, none were removed. Thus, the collection of examples has ended.
11 Feb 2010 Update: here is a current example. This buyer has left two negs, on 10 Feb. See if they stay or go:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=alexgaby1012&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
15 Feb Second Test Case
Neg left 14 Feb
Received quick Doesnt leave fdback unless he gets fdback 1st. Poor bus. strategy
(link accidentally deleted)
11 Mar Third Test Case
Neut left 10 Mar
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tarasadies&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Here's one standing from a long time ago, which makes one wonder if the removals were done by some rogue employee:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=gene9404&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
Here's one from 5 Mar 2010
When i have to leave feedback first as a buyer it is negative.
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=trailing.on&iid=-1&de=off&items=200
Here's one from 1 May 09 (and a couple more from this fb crank):
Plays feedback manipulation games... not good. Great product, A-
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&userid=1hobbyman1&iid=-1&de=off&items=100
This fb crank doesn't neg, but does suggest posting a '2' DSR:
# If the seller leaves feedback in a timely manner, I will give "Good" Communication rating (more on ratings in the next section)
# If the seller fails to leave feedback, I will give them grace period of at least 3 days (usually, that's actually a week or more) and if nothing happens, eventually I will leave feedback saying that the seller failed to leave feedback upon the receipt of the payment, and the Communication rating will be "Poor"
# If the seller does not act politely, the Communication rating will be "Very Poor", or in rare cases I reserve the right to leave Neutral feedback even if I'm happy with the item
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=wesha_the_leopard
Two more neutrals, left in sept, 09:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=kdryan4&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers
New item from May 10, see neg from 25 May:
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=old-mopar&ftab=AllFeedback
Square Trade warranties
"I would suggest that if you use a aftermarket battery, get one from a seller that's squaretrade verified so you can get one of their warranties. Thanks for the warning."
Hi folks,
My name is Kord (SquareTradeKord) and I am the Customer Experience Manager for SquareTrade.
Unfortunately our warranties don't cover consumer-replaceable items; this includes such items as batteries, ink/toner cartridges, power cords/adaptors, bulbs....
Just wanted to clarify.
Thanks,
Kord (SquareTradeKord)
Customer Experience Manager
SquareTrade.com
Hi folks,
My name is Kord (SquareTradeKord) and I am the Customer Experience Manager for SquareTrade.
Unfortunately our warranties don't cover consumer-replaceable items; this includes such items as batteries, ink/toner cartridges, power cords/adaptors, bulbs....
Just wanted to clarify.
Thanks,
Kord (SquareTradeKord)
Customer Experience Manager
SquareTrade.com
Monday, January 11, 2010
How did buyer negative feedback survive so long?
No other business has ever allowed their assets to say bad things about their customers in public, and the reasons are obvious. The business wants to attract and keep buyers, and saying bad things about buyers has the opposite effect.
And yet, ebay allowed negative things to be posted, in public on ebay computers, about ebay buyers, for some twelve years.
The effects were disastrous. The primary effects, namely buyers who left because bad things were said about them, were significant.
It was the secondary effect which actually was the disaster: buyers who left because they had a bad experience with some seller, but the only recourse offered would subject them to a negative public report.
During that era, sellers, feeling protected, became increasingly careless, and some sellers even developed business models which relied on the protection to avoid exposure. Eventually, all active buyers banged in to some unpleasant situation, and personally recognized how suppressed buyers had become.
Even after Ebay figured out the obvious, in early 2008, they acted lackadaisically, taking months to get the buyer exodus to stop (May, 2008).
How did such a bad idea survive so long?
It's an interesting question, with two foundational answers.
1. Ebay itself is a "positive feedback loop explosion". The kind of thing which physicists were a little scared of when they first ignited a nuclear explosion. Maybe the whole universe would be destroyed.
Once the WWW internet infrastructure was in place, ebay was ready to be sparked. Whoever did it first was going to win big, because auctions beget auctions. Buyers and sellers flock to the single best place.
2. Over-reverence with respect to the formula. Once the spark had ignited the explosion, ebay management continued to believe that their formula had some special role in creating that success. That formula included feedback, including buyer feedback.
The important aspects of the formula were simple competence in putting together a computerized auction system which ordinary people could use to buy and sell on the internet. The rest of the formula, including feedback of any kind, was just so much baggage.
And yet, ebay allowed negative things to be posted, in public on ebay computers, about ebay buyers, for some twelve years.
The effects were disastrous. The primary effects, namely buyers who left because bad things were said about them, were significant.
It was the secondary effect which actually was the disaster: buyers who left because they had a bad experience with some seller, but the only recourse offered would subject them to a negative public report.
During that era, sellers, feeling protected, became increasingly careless, and some sellers even developed business models which relied on the protection to avoid exposure. Eventually, all active buyers banged in to some unpleasant situation, and personally recognized how suppressed buyers had become.
Even after Ebay figured out the obvious, in early 2008, they acted lackadaisically, taking months to get the buyer exodus to stop (May, 2008).
How did such a bad idea survive so long?
It's an interesting question, with two foundational answers.
1. Ebay itself is a "positive feedback loop explosion". The kind of thing which physicists were a little scared of when they first ignited a nuclear explosion. Maybe the whole universe would be destroyed.
Once the WWW internet infrastructure was in place, ebay was ready to be sparked. Whoever did it first was going to win big, because auctions beget auctions. Buyers and sellers flock to the single best place.
2. Over-reverence with respect to the formula. Once the spark had ignited the explosion, ebay management continued to believe that their formula had some special role in creating that success. That formula included feedback, including buyer feedback.
The important aspects of the formula were simple competence in putting together a computerized auction system which ordinary people could use to buy and sell on the internet. The rest of the formula, including feedback of any kind, was just so much baggage.
Sunday, January 10, 2010
No Such Rule
There exist some confusion regarding ebay rules. You might think it's as easy as just looking it up, but ebay rules do consist both of written text and a body of behavior. This yields confusion, but some cases wishful thinking and betrayed intuition have yielded multiple people convincing each other that there is some rule.
Feel encouraged to post any citation of ebay text, any pink posting, or any story which supports an alternative view on any of these.
1. If a buyer is blocked, that buyer cannot make arrangements to have someone else buy the stuff for the blocked buyer.
I have no idea how ebay would enforce such a thing, even if they wanted to.
Ebay allows sellers to block buyers, either individually by name, or by a list of characteristics such as country registered.
Conversely, there is a rule, If a buyer is blocked on one id, they are not allowed to buy the stuff from some other id.
There is also a rule, A bidder may not bid with the intent of leaving undesired feedback. If you get your wife to buy it for you, make sure she leaves feedback which is based on how the transaction went, not how you feel about being blocked.
2. While asserting issues with a transaction, buyer is not allowed to threaten bad feedback.
While unpleasant, and likely sub-optimal, feedback was from day one a lever given to buyers to motivate sellers into doing the right thing.
Conversely, there is a rule, Buyer may not threaten bad feedback in an attempt to obtain something not included or implied by the listing.
3. Buyer is not allowed to return stuff if the stuff is not in the original condition.
I don't know where this idea came from, but buyer is allowed to use the stuff and return it if it turns out not to be what was described. In most cases, trying to use it as described will alter it in some way.
4. Buyer is not allowed to leave negative stars (a 1 or 2) while leaving positive feedback.
Just nonsense. Most negs are left as negative stars these days. When there was some particular issue with the transaction, such as a shipping gouge, it is perfectly reasonable to report that the transaction was overall successful, while some aspect was significantly annoying.
Conversely, ebay does promise to detect buyers who consistently leave negative stars while leaving positive feedback, when it appears that this is being done with the intent to harm sellers.
5. Buyer cannot leave negative feedback without contacting seller first.
Some are confused (some willingly) by the fact that ebay requires buyer to check three boxes, one of which says "I have contacted seller", before leaving neg.
This is an unfortunate behavior in the feedback process. Ebay's intent was to encourage contacting seller before leaving neg, which is usually a good idea. Let seller fix the problem. But there are some times when it is pretty clear that contacting seller is not going to be a pleasant interpersonal experience, or that there is no specific request which buyer has of seller, although the overall experience seems negative.
Observe that one of the other questions regards whether an appropriate amount of time has passed for delivery. Again, sometimes irrelevant, when seller has announced that they are not shipping the stuff.
6. Seller is not allowed to offer cash in exchange for revision of negative feedback.
Sellers are allowed, even encouraged to address issues which buyer might have had with the transaction. Sometimes the only sensible way to do that is with a cash offer. There does exist an escrow problem however: who goes first. One side has to trust the other, there is no way to enforce the agreement.
Conversely, there is a rule, sellers are not allowed to buy positive feedback, by simply promising cash in exchange for the positive independent of how the transaction has gone or might go. The crucial difference involves seller addressing some issue with the transaction. We once read of a seller who offered a full refund so long as buyer would leave pos with good stars before the item was even shipped. That seller went NARU.
Feel encouraged to post any citation of ebay text, any pink posting, or any story which supports an alternative view on any of these.
1. If a buyer is blocked, that buyer cannot make arrangements to have someone else buy the stuff for the blocked buyer.
I have no idea how ebay would enforce such a thing, even if they wanted to.
Ebay allows sellers to block buyers, either individually by name, or by a list of characteristics such as country registered.
Conversely, there is a rule, If a buyer is blocked on one id, they are not allowed to buy the stuff from some other id.
There is also a rule, A bidder may not bid with the intent of leaving undesired feedback. If you get your wife to buy it for you, make sure she leaves feedback which is based on how the transaction went, not how you feel about being blocked.
2. While asserting issues with a transaction, buyer is not allowed to threaten bad feedback.
While unpleasant, and likely sub-optimal, feedback was from day one a lever given to buyers to motivate sellers into doing the right thing.
Conversely, there is a rule, Buyer may not threaten bad feedback in an attempt to obtain something not included or implied by the listing.
3. Buyer is not allowed to return stuff if the stuff is not in the original condition.
I don't know where this idea came from, but buyer is allowed to use the stuff and return it if it turns out not to be what was described. In most cases, trying to use it as described will alter it in some way.
4. Buyer is not allowed to leave negative stars (a 1 or 2) while leaving positive feedback.
Just nonsense. Most negs are left as negative stars these days. When there was some particular issue with the transaction, such as a shipping gouge, it is perfectly reasonable to report that the transaction was overall successful, while some aspect was significantly annoying.
Conversely, ebay does promise to detect buyers who consistently leave negative stars while leaving positive feedback, when it appears that this is being done with the intent to harm sellers.
5. Buyer cannot leave negative feedback without contacting seller first.
Some are confused (some willingly) by the fact that ebay requires buyer to check three boxes, one of which says "I have contacted seller", before leaving neg.
This is an unfortunate behavior in the feedback process. Ebay's intent was to encourage contacting seller before leaving neg, which is usually a good idea. Let seller fix the problem. But there are some times when it is pretty clear that contacting seller is not going to be a pleasant interpersonal experience, or that there is no specific request which buyer has of seller, although the overall experience seems negative.
Observe that one of the other questions regards whether an appropriate amount of time has passed for delivery. Again, sometimes irrelevant, when seller has announced that they are not shipping the stuff.
6. Seller is not allowed to offer cash in exchange for revision of negative feedback.
Sellers are allowed, even encouraged to address issues which buyer might have had with the transaction. Sometimes the only sensible way to do that is with a cash offer. There does exist an escrow problem however: who goes first. One side has to trust the other, there is no way to enforce the agreement.
Conversely, there is a rule, sellers are not allowed to buy positive feedback, by simply promising cash in exchange for the positive independent of how the transaction has gone or might go. The crucial difference involves seller addressing some issue with the transaction. We once read of a seller who offered a full refund so long as buyer would leave pos with good stars before the item was even shipped. That seller went NARU.
Sunday, January 3, 2010
Ebay buyer scammers are mostly kids or drug addicts
This is a case I've made on the board a few times.
And one which has been pulled at least once, so I post it here instead. I have no idea why one would find it offensive.
Out and out buyer scams are rare, but not necessarily if one sells a particular kind of stuff. The kinds of stuff which are most attractive to scammers:
1. hot electronics, including the latest gaming software
2. expensive shoes and clothing attractive to teenagers
3. stuff which can readily be converted to cash
I suggest being very careful when selling such items. I don't sell them myself.
The reason is that they attract a deliberate scam. A buyer who has bought with the intention of ripping a seller off.
Out and out buyer scams all have one weakness: the stuff gets shipped to an address. Ship too much scammed stuff to the same address, and eventually someone will knock on the door. It takes a lot, but will eventually happen.
Thus, buyer scams are attractive to two classes of people: kids who have no money but want expensive stuff, and drug addicts looking for something to convert into drugs (and a bit of food). Neither class of person has a rational view of the longer term consequences of the behavior, or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.
Kids tend to be testing the system. Why this won't work is less than obvious, and preliminary tests frequently pay off. Eventually, they gain a bit of skill and realize that the police consider this kind of crime to be low priority. But eventually, they either stop or they get busted.
Drug addicts are almost always involved in theft of one kind or another, because it's by far the easiest path to the kind of cash required to sustain an addicted lifestyle.
I do suggest that a letter to the local police where a scam has occurred might be useful. Something along the lines of "Dear police, I thought you might find this information useful. I was victimized by a fraud committed by a person living at 123 Some St, in your town. [two lines of detail]". Who knows, it might add to other stuff which results in a search warrant. Don't expect your money back.
Send a copy to the scammer.
And one which has been pulled at least once, so I post it here instead. I have no idea why one would find it offensive.
Out and out buyer scams are rare, but not necessarily if one sells a particular kind of stuff. The kinds of stuff which are most attractive to scammers:
1. hot electronics, including the latest gaming software
2. expensive shoes and clothing attractive to teenagers
3. stuff which can readily be converted to cash
I suggest being very careful when selling such items. I don't sell them myself.
The reason is that they attract a deliberate scam. A buyer who has bought with the intention of ripping a seller off.
Out and out buyer scams all have one weakness: the stuff gets shipped to an address. Ship too much scammed stuff to the same address, and eventually someone will knock on the door. It takes a lot, but will eventually happen.
Thus, buyer scams are attractive to two classes of people: kids who have no money but want expensive stuff, and drug addicts looking for something to convert into drugs (and a bit of food). Neither class of person has a rational view of the longer term consequences of the behavior, or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.
Kids tend to be testing the system. Why this won't work is less than obvious, and preliminary tests frequently pay off. Eventually, they gain a bit of skill and realize that the police consider this kind of crime to be low priority. But eventually, they either stop or they get busted.
Drug addicts are almost always involved in theft of one kind or another, because it's by far the easiest path to the kind of cash required to sustain an addicted lifestyle.
I do suggest that a letter to the local police where a scam has occurred might be useful. Something along the lines of "Dear police, I thought you might find this information useful. I was victimized by a fraud committed by a person living at 123 Some St, in your town. [two lines of detail]". Who knows, it might add to other stuff which results in a search warrant. Don't expect your money back.
Send a copy to the scammer.
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