SNADs and extortion.

General scenario:
1. buyer receives stuff, complains to seller that it is not as described by listing
2. seller offers a remedy involving returning the stuff, or even a refund if only buyer supplies pictures of the problem
3. buyer refuses, but continues to demand a refund, threatening undesirable fb

And the question arises, is that "feedback extortion".

And the answer, unequivocally, is no. The question is not "does this meet the intuitive or dictionary definition of extortion". The question is, will ebay rule it as extortion and protect seller.

The fact that ebay is totally consistent on SNAD/extortion cases isn't quite the same as saying that ebay never rules extortion. Convincing ebay to rule extortion requires additional information. All known cases have involved a clear pattern by buyer.

Here's a quote from such a seller quoting a reply from ebay customer service:

In this instance, we found that the buyer was not in violation of our
Feedback extortion policy. We did consider the facts that she refused to send photos of the item and refused to send the item back. However, we also did consider that there have been no previous complaints against this member. We also considered the fact that the buyer had complaints about all three items but only pursued a refund for one.

Here's a story posted to the board:
I called Greedbay & spoke to the rep who told me just to do what the customer wanted. In that particular incident the customer received a vest (within 4 days). We list all types of fabric on clothing in all listings. She did not like the fabric. Okay, so I said return it and I will be happy to refund. She emailed me back through Ebay messaging and stated that she was going to keep the $12 vest + I needed to send her $10 so she could go to the tailor and get it tailored with the fabric she wanted.....

This is insane! True extortion. I even looked up wikipedias definition. I called Greedbay, rep told me just to send her the $10 and be done with it.... She said it was NOT considered extortion. Excuse me, the last time I looked, if you are asking for something that is not on the listing.... that is extortion! They denied my removal of neg feedback.

Here is another quote:

This guy left me a Nuetral. Contacting live Ebay help here is the chat. Ridiculous!

Initial Question/Comment: General Questions
5:46:14 PM System
Randi W. has joined this session!
5:46:14 PM System
Connected with Randi W.
5:46:14 PM Randi W.
Thank you for contacting eBay live chat. My name is Randi, I would be happy to help you today! Can I get your name and eBay user id please?
5:46:32 PM sportschampioncards
**************** and my name is ****
5:46:49 PM Randi W.
Thank you ****, how can I help you today?
5:47:10 PM sportschampioncards
Ok it's regarding Ebay item #****************
5:47:29 PM Randi W.
Ok
5:47:43 PM sportschampioncards
Now this guy threatened with poor feedback. Feedback Extorsion
5:48:17 PM sportschampioncards
I emailed Ebay with his email and they said to contact back if he left poor feedback. He even opened a claim on me and the claim was dropped
5:49:08 PM sportschampioncards
This is his bogus feedback
5:49:20 PM sportschampioncards
Item described wrong 4 times! Asked 4 return, got blamed, re-sold.no trust-bware.
5:49:37 PM Randi W.
I see that the buyer left your a neutral feedback. Let me take a look and see what I can find out for you.
5:50:02 PM sportschampioncards
resold . He resold it
5:50:12 PM sportschampioncards
give me a break C'mon!
5:50:45 PM sportschampioncards
it's all lies
5:51:12 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you feel the feedback is not fair. I am looking into this for you, please give me a few minutes.
5:51:43 PM sportschampioncards
Ok as long as you guys do the right thing and don't let this guy get away with it. Before he does it to others
5:52:47 PM Randi W.
So I understand that a dispute was opened through PayPal was it closed?
5:52:58 PM sportschampioncards
yes he closed it
5:53:04 PM sportschampioncards
that's the funny part
5:54:01 PM sportschampioncards
I don't deserve this feedback. This guy tried to extort me and then opens a bs claim and then closes it cause he resold the item
5:54:04 PM sportschampioncards
C'mon
5:54:22 PM Randi W.
Let me take a look at the dispute. One moment please
5:58:02 PM Randi W.
Thank you for your patience it will be a few more moments.
5:58:12 PM Randi W.
Did the buyer email you through eBay and try to extort you?
5:58:17 PM sportschampioncards
no problem
5:58:39 PM sportschampioncards
yes. I've emailed Ebay the email that was through Ebay already
5:59:28 PM sportschampioncards
Ebay said they can't do anything till he leaves feedback
5:59:31 PM sportschampioncards
well he did
5:59:42 PM Randi W.
I see that he left a neutral feedback.
6:00:04 PM sportschampioncards
well isn't it obvious his intensions to begin with
6:00:25 PM sportschampioncards
he saw he couldn't get money out of me
6:01:10 PM sportschampioncards
negative nuetral is the same thing
6:01:18 PM sportschampioncards
telling people they can't trust me
6:01:25 PM sportschampioncards
how would you feel
6:02:21 PM sportschampioncards
I can't believe you guys are even questioning me on this matter
6:03:02 PM Randi W.
Elie, I understand you are frustrated about the feedback and I do see that the buyer closed the dispute, however feedback is still their opinion on the transaction and it does have to meet the requirements to remove it.
6:03:51 PM sportschampioncards
what do you mean. According to your feedback policy Feedback extorsion is not tolerated
6:04:03 PM sportschampioncards
I have proof
6:04:15 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:04:17 PM sportschampioncards
do you want me to contact the better business Bearu
6:04:19 PM sportschampioncards
cause I will
6:04:57 PM Randi W.
When the buyer emailed you was it through your personal email? or eBay?
6:05:08 PM sportschampioncards
Through Ebay
6:05:22 PM sportschampioncards
Don't you have records of my complaints already
6:05:30 PM sportschampioncards
I knew this was coming
6:06:12 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us an email however I don't see that email in your member to member messages what day did they send that email?
6:07:06 PM sportschampioncards
hold on let me look
6:08:03 PM Randi W.
I see that they emailed you on the 26, but that is the last email I see from them.
6:08:48 PM sportschampioncards
It was the day I left feedback I believe
6:10:23 PM Randi W.
The last email I see from them in eBay is on the 26th.
6:10:51 PM sportschampioncards
let me check my ebay email records
6:11:59 PM sportschampioncards
how do I find the email records?
6:12:33 PM Randi W.
They would be in your My Messages.
6:14:30 PM sportschampioncards
what you guys erase the blogs?
6:14:38 PM sportschampioncards
I sent his email
6:15:38 PM Randi W.
Do you still have the messages in your personal email?
6:16:49 PM sportschampioncards
I'm looking for it
6:16:58 PM Randi W.
ok thank you
6:20:13 PM sportschampioncards
I can't find the email
6:20:18 PM sportschampioncards
I must have deleted it
6:20:30 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you guys the email
6:20:38 PM sportschampioncards
that's probably why I deleted it
6:20:58 PM Randi W.
I see that you sent us the email, however we would need the header to know it came from the buyer.
6:21:15 PM sportschampioncards
I did what you guys told me to do
6:21:22 PM sportschampioncards
don't give me this bs now
6:21:28 PM Randi W.
If a buyer gets an item that is not described and want a refund for an item, that is not actually feedback extortion.
6:21:54 PM sportschampioncards
wow you guys are something
6:22:30 PM sportschampioncards
hold on foound something
6:22:43 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however feedback is there so a buyer can state how they feel about the transaction.
6:23:10 PM sportschampioncards
ok how do I copy the header and give it to you
6:23:28 PM sportschampioncards
cause it's right throiugh ebay
6:24:03 PM Randi W.
when was the email sent?
6:24:19 PM sportschampioncards
june 23
6:24:43 PM Randi W.
It was through eBay?
6:25:25 PM sportschampioncards
it says in yellow heading "seller responded to your questiion about this item"
6:25:31 PM sportschampioncards
that's ebay right
6:26:29 PM sportschampioncards
let me just copy this and send it to you
6:26:35 PM sportschampioncards
all the facts are there
6:26:39 PM Randi W.
I can send you an email and have you reply to that email, then I can have the email looked at to see if it meets the feedback extortion guidelines for you.
6:27:14 PM sportschampioncards
how does that make sense
6:28:24 PM Randi W.
If you send the email to me I can look at it to see if it is feedback extortion.
6:28:43 PM sportschampioncards
ok
6:28:54 PM Randi W.
Let me send you that email really quick.
6:30:54 PM Randi W.
Ok the email has been sent. You should see it in your My Messages.
6:31:23 PM sportschampioncards
why don't I forward the emails to you
6:31:30 PM sportschampioncards
do you have na email adress
6:31:54 PM Randi W.
You will need to reply to the email for it to get directly back to me
6:33:33 PM sportschampioncards
I did not get a message
6:34:44 PM Randi W.
It may take just a moment.
6:37:29 PM Randi W.
Ok you should have it now.
6:38:28 PM sportschampioncards
How do i PAST IT? i DON'T KNOW HOW TO
6:40:09 PM Randi W.
You can hold the CTRL key plus C and that will copy. Paste is CTRL and V
6:45:06 PM sportschampioncards
NOT WORKING
6:46:20 PM Randi W.
You need to select the text that you want to copy. So go to the email from the buyer highlight all the text
6:46:35 PM Randi W.
you can right click on your mouse. In the box that comes up click Copy.
6:47:03 PM sportschampioncards
ok I think I did it\
6:47:24 PM Randi W.
Then go to my email to you and paste. you can right click on your mouse and paste.
6:47:37 PM sportschampioncards
look at the frist message. He wanted money and I did offer a refund
6:49:20 PM Randi W.
I don't see a message in eBay from him like that. That is why I need you to send it to me.
6:50:11 PM sportschampioncards
did you get my email I sent you
6:50:25 PM Randi W.
Let me refresh and check
6:52:15 PM Randi W.
so you are referring to "so it will be reflected in your feedback unless you want to refund a bit, $20.00 would be fair I think" as feedback extortion correct?
6:52:25 PM sportschampioncards
yes
6:52:35 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the card
6:53:25 PM sportschampioncards
he threatened to leave poor feedback
6:53:38 PM sportschampioncards
wiythout giving me a chance to offer a refund
6:53:46 PM sportschampioncards
which I did even
6:55:43 PM sportschampioncards
I sent you another email
6:55:48 PM sportschampioncards
we went back and forth
6:55:56 PM sportschampioncards
I worked with this guy
6:56:15 PM sportschampioncards
his feedback is a lie
6:56:55 PM Randi W.
So I do see that the buyer contacted you about the mistake in the listing which is why they were asking for a partial refund. Regrettably that is not feedback extortion.
6:57:16 PM sportschampioncards
before he even recieved the item
6:57:37 PM sportschampioncards
clearly his intensions were to extort me
6:57:45 PM Randi W.
Because you had communication about the error no it would not be feedback extortion.
6:58:10 PM sportschampioncards
umm he emailed me first
6:58:40 PM sportschampioncards
saying if I don't give him money back he'd leave poor feedback
6:59:05 PM sportschampioncards
that's extorsion
6:59:05 PM Randi W.
If the item was listed incorrectly and that brought down the value of the item asking for a partial refund is not extortion
6:59:26 PM sportschampioncards
the roor had nothing to do with the value
6:59:41 PM sportschampioncards
I had a large scan up as well
6:59:53 PM sportschampioncards
error*
7:00:12 PM sportschampioncards
how can you guys defend this guy
7:00:20 PM Randi W.
Yes and the scan and the listing information was different. Which is what the buyer is stating. I am sorry Elie it is not extortion and the feedback cannot be removed.
7:00:23 PM sportschampioncards
he even opened a false claim the dropped it
7:00:37 PM sportschampioncards
then*
7:00:46 PM Randi W.
He did open a claim and did state that he resold the item, but you didn't refund him,
7:00:58 PM sportschampioncards
in the feedback he said I wouldn't offer a refund which clearly I did
7:01:20 PM sportschampioncards
I said to send the item back then I'll issue a refund
7:01:24 PM sportschampioncards
which he didn't
7:01:35 PM Randi W.
Just stating that in a feedback is not against a feedback policy, we would not be able to remove it for that.
7:01:55 PM Randi W.
If you have worked it out with the buyer at this time you can certainly send a feedback revision request to the buyer.
7:02:16 PM sportschampioncards
you're going to make me work with a liar
7:02:36 PM sportschampioncards
way to encourage these kind of people
7:04:19 PM Randi W.
I am sorry I know that situations like this can be frustrating, however this feedback does not qualify for removal from eBay.
7:06:05 PM sportschampioncards
I'm going to post this chat in the feedback forum. Let's see what other Users think about it
7:06:15 PM sportschampioncards
This is ridiculous
7:07:14 PM Randi W.
I am sorry that the feedback cannot be removed. Did you have any other concerns that I could address for you?